Describing Subdermal armour?

[zero]

Another gear-based thread. If I come across another thing, I'll just make a gear thread to link all these queries.

My question is about Subdermal armour. I was explaining what is was to my girlfriend, that its an armour under the skin, when she seemed dismayed about what kind of procedure would be able to achieve this.

Then I got to wondering, besides the advanced armour stating organs are protected by being encased in what seems like advanced plastic/polymer, subdermal armour is rather vague.

Is it like a bunch of subdermal implants that act like a plate or splint armour, or would it be more like small thin pouches of plastic that absorb impact under the skin, or even something like Wolverine's adamantium skelenton or an injected layer of liquid armour under the skin?

Normal subdermal goes up to 3 armour whilst advanced adds organ protection and can go up to 5 armour.

I picture whoever has this augment needing to be fully cut open, have their organs incased in moulded plastic/polymer (for Advanced type), their bones plated with the armour and then impact gel subdermally placed under parts not meant to permanently rigid - an extensive operation, one that would leave some scarring unless theyre medically treated to make the scars go down or not form (we're talking up to TL 14 medical stuff here).

Obviously it wouldnt be too obvious on a clothed character either way (unless they dont react to being hit in the face and their skin manages to stop a knife, then questions will be asked :roll: ).

Any opinions on what subdermal armour actually is?

 

[GypsyComet]

Could be bone lacing (ala Wolverine) or bone padding.

Could be a simple (and odd looking) as skin pouches for trauma plates or weaves.

Could be as low density as nano-tech fiber emplacement through the dermis in a loose grid.

 

[rust]

Any opinions on what subdermal armour actually is?

In my settings it is organic, similar to cartilage or scar tissue, with proper-
ties equivalent to kevlar. It is created from the character's own tissue to
avoid any unwelcome reactions of his immune system.

 

[AKAmra]

Yes, I think bio-tech makes the most sense; the body is modified to grow the sub-dermal armor. Surgery with artificial implants would be possible in a very high-tech society, but that is some seriously invasive surgery.

BTW Zero, if your interested in a great source for bio-tech gadgets I strongly suggest you pick-up GURPS 4e Bio-Tech. All the GURPS Tech books are really good catalogs of stuff (Low Tech, High Tech, Ultra Tech and Bio-Tech).

 

[far-trader]

Any opinions on what subdermal armour actually is?

In my settings it is organic, similar to cartilage or scar tissue, with proper-
ties equivalent to kevlar. It is created from the character's own tissue to
avoid any unwelcome reactions of his immune system.

I like that. Wish I could remember how it was (or we had it worked out) from Shadowrun :? (I seem to recall it being not bad)

More recently I've been leaning towards a reactive gel encapsulated in light kevlar bags implanted just below the skin. Kevlar stops/slows the bullets and edges/points of sharps, and the reactive gel goes rigid briefly from sudden shocks for added protection from bullets/edges/points as well as blunting blows from melee attacks.

The reason/benefit of this method is it is much less noticed and does not interfere with normal movement being more like a thick skin when not being subjected to attacks. Add materials made to mimic body density for stealth from sensors for a bit more expense and the ultimate in secret defense.

 

[zero]

I think biotech is a great idea, like I have said in rust's bio-breather thread, I'm on a real H R Giger/biomechanics kick recently.

Its more realistic based on the rules having the skin given an armour stat to have a subdermal reactive impact gel that is under the entirety of the skin (also as from rust's point its made using the augmented's genetic material). Then even delicate extremities can be armoured...

"Hurrah! I am now immune to groinal kicks!"

I wonder how such a reactive gel can be introduced to the body. As medical tech for the Darrians doesnt go over 15, its hard to say how. I would posit that such an extensive amount of gel is inserted via nano-tech to not put the augmented into shock.

Now I wonder how an organic reactive gel could be constructed (looks like we're back to the Bio-Viziers (Lexx terminology ftw!) of TL 13 Jacent )

 

[far-trader]

Well, we have had the impact reactive gel for a few years now. What TL to make it implantable and/or organic? Hard to say.

 

[locarno24]

"Hurrah! I am now immune to groinal kicks!"

[Battledress armoured foot swings in from the left and clobbers zero]

There's immune and then there's resilient. They are not the same, and at armour five they aren't even close, kid.


I'd also go with either biotech or else nanite-deposited. Implanting sheets of 'proper' armour seems unnecessarily invasive.

The S&P augments article specifically had "armoured skin" as something distinctly different from subdermal armour, so I'd go for protective gel/shielding around major organs and arteries. Most flesh wounds aren't really that bad (in the short term, anyway) provided there's minimal blood loss and nerve damage.

The other reason I'd go for organic/gene mod is simple - armour is rarely rated for multiple hits (no, I take that back. It is rated for multiple hits in one engagement but it's still supposed to be replaced after that engagement). When talking about a kevlar bag or piece of polymer plate under the skin, after one hit from a high-calibre round it will be nadgered.

I don't want the surgeons playing 'hunt the kevlar fragments' around my circulatory system, nor, if the surgery is unpleasantly invasive, do I want it repeated every time I suffer significant blunt trauma.

A gene-mod design that will repair itself is significantly preferable, thank you.

 

[zero]

Jacent and Daryen have the technology of genetic engineering (Jacent is in the prototype phase but their research is apparently quite promising).

Possibly the reactive impact gel could be something like the fluid cushioning the brain within the skull, just subdermal. Or sinus fluid. It would be a thin layer that gene engineering would let spread under the skin.

Also as stated above, if the armour is penetrated (like by a Battle Dress booted thug - locarno :wink: ), it shouldnt cause too many problems, the sac(s) should heal naturally, if it leaks internally, the leaked material could be drained when first-aid is applied.

I'd rule a leak like the one above only happens when the character def. needs first-aid or surgery of some kind.

It would still probably need a nano-weave to implement, in order for the cells to be placed properly subdermally and not intravenous. However we have 2mm syringe needles with current day tech, so it may not be too hard to do on a TL 13-15 planet.

 

[GypsyComet]

With stuff like this: http://news.discovery.com/tech/ultrathin-device-detects-brain-signals-110811.html
coming out now, who knows...

 

[Jacqual]

CP2020 had two versions:

a) Nanomaschines weaving a kevlar mesh under the skin and doing some minor gene fix to the skin too. If damaged you need to drink/inject a bottle or three of repair nanos. This was the low armor (Max SP12 about a medium Kevlar vest) but "all body". Mostly used as part of a "composite package" with a second layer of light armord cloth above. This was a low intensive process. Basically spend a day in hospital so they can fine tune the process and that's it. Higher values had a slightly "rubbery" feeling an could sometimes be detected

b) Implanted articulate plates. A bit like a Lorica Segmentata under the skin. This was a massive job with some weeks in hospital but Armor of IIRC 18-20 (Class-4a or better armor) and easily detectable

IIRC the Chromebooks had some nice stuff on this

Yes type A is the skinweave mod which had a 50% chance to lower your looks by 1 point, and it was obvious you had it looked like plastic skin.

type B is the subdermal armor and was obvious if you got the cheap set.

both could be repaired with the repair juice cans.
In my games the skinweave type A listed above was only effective against edged weapons, it was a stab/slash type armor only. The type B listed above was Torso only unless you got the Head version shown in I think Chromebook 3 or was it 4.

 

[GypsyComet]

This just in...

http://news.yahoo.com/utah-researcher-helps-artist-bulletproof-skin-222748012.html

 

[zero]

Excellent

Though it wouldnt really be subdermal per se as it would be produced either ontop of or throughout the skin, that is a very interesting use of spider silk.

Though I have decided that IMTU high TL advanced subdermal armour is a genetically engineered trait and manifests as a subdermal layer of impact gel across the entire body, I still dont have a specific biology explanation of just what the armour is and contains cells of.

So, thread ressurrection; what biological matter would go into genetically engineered and biologically produced impact gel (5 armour points) or how would you explain this genetic modfication in terms of Biology?
(I have an A-Level in Biology so dont shy away from non-layman terms though wikipedia links will be a help for my own research).

 

[rust]

So, thread ressurrection; what biological matter would go into genetically engineered and biologically produced impact gel (5 armour points) or how would you explain this genetic modfication in terms of Biology?

Probably a genetically modified Synovial fluid, as the body already has the
"blueprints" for this, and developing it into an impact gel should not be too
difficult:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synovial_fluid