Deneb Sector

[Liam Devlin]

That said, their best source is probably the Regency Sourcebook. Also, DGP's Travellers' Digest did spend a lot of time in Deneb, and they covered a lot of ground in it prior to the Rebellion.

That all said, I hope they keep the broad brush strokes and just go from there irrespective of what was in Travellers' Digest, the Regency Sourcebook, or in Spinward States. Deneb is a bad mis-mash of stuff that is heavily weighed down by badly applied Rebellion changes. Trying over would actually be a good thing.

Without the 5FW to rile things up, Deneb is going to look pretty static right up to when the Vargr invade in 1117 or so. It is a bit of a mash-up sector, with conflicting influences from the frontier and the Imperial core and little clear identity of its own. That can be used as the identity itself, with a little work.

I must concur with your assessment Mssr Gypsy Comet,
For an in-game bridgehead Imperial Sector, Deneb swings from worlds of TL3 to TLG across subsectors. From the High-technology worlds, a True Naval Depot (Also TLG), to having a Sector capital dominated by world-wide religion (Deneb/ Usani B537ADD-C N Hi In Cx 610), the mix-mash of cultures of both Vilani & Solomani influences of previous Imperiums, the Sector has a lot to offer in hundreds of different directions. Like yourself, I hope the broad-brush is maintained, however there are a few worlds that could stand a tweak or two environment-vs Tech level without losing flavor, as MJD did when MgT's Spinward Marches came out (Trin, as an example).

Looking macro-scale at the Deneb Sector vis-a-vis the Marches:
:arrow: it has a Grand Admiral, A Sector Fleet, and at least 14 Numbered Fleets (Ss O & P administered territories).

:arrow: it has a Sector Duke, and apparently at least 14 subsector Dukes/Duchesses (Ss O & P administered territories).

:arrow: Whereas the Marches has but 3x TL-E worlds (Macene/Rhylanor; Tenalphi/Lunion; & Palique/Mora), 4x worlds at TL-F (Glisten, Rhylanor, Mora, & Trin), & 1 world TL-G (Darrian); in stark contrast, Deneb has 17x worlds at TL-E, 12x TL-F, & 4x TL-G worlds--of which the following are key economic hubs*:

:idea: Antra/Antra A53789C-E Cp
:idea: Gabrael/ Million A473646-E Ni
:idea: Polizzi/ Dunmag B402532-E Ic Ni Va
:idea: Orenburg/ Dunmag B130678-E De Na Ni
:idea: Inar/Inar A310736-E N Na Cp
:idea: Inkekush/ Gulf A140548-E N De Ni
:idea: Preslin/ Gulf B130679-E N De Na Ni
:idea: Lilad/Zeng C447AAE-E Hi In
:idea: Giffert/ Zeng B7A9557-E Fl Ni
:idea: Magash/Sabine A400976-F S Hi In Va Cp
:idea: Starn/Inar B000996-F Hi In As RsB
:idea: Atadl/Atsah B2109C7-F Hi In Na
:idea: Imone/Starlane A9C1555-F N Fl Ni Cp
:idea: Dekha/ Vincennes C100A9A-F Hi In Na Va
:idea: Quevar/Gulf A2326AE-F Na Ni
:idea: Jecife/ Zeng A439667-F N Ni
:idea: Depot/Vincennes A100644-G D Na Ni Va
:idea: Vincennes/Vincennes A899AA6-G Hi In Cp
:idea: HRD/ Vincennes A401654-G N Ic Na Ni Va
:idea: Pashus*/ Zeng A232455-G S Ni Po RsZ


:arrow: Given the fact there are no less than 6x Imperial research Bases in the Sector (RsZ-Pashus; RsA-Arcanum; RsB-Starn; RsD-Aerfor; RsE-Saarinen; & RsG-Maelstrom), as well as 4x documented Ancients' sites (Redi/Pretoria; 494-524/ Million; Amritsar/Sabine; & Tetzel/ Usani) there is ample room for the Imperial Scholarly adventures/ explorations here--maybe less in Ancient's sites than the Marches, but their presence has been noted and is under study.

Given these things, and the fact that MgT has changed the bar between former rulesystems technology levels at TL-C being "Hi-Tech" (Ht in Trade code UWP lingo), Deneb Sector still has more of these worlds than the Marches.

So the 'Imperial think-tank/ research haven for Academics premise of one of the posters is valid; Likewise the only warlike frontier to worry about pre-1117is the Vargr Frontier, which has had its share of raider-corsair activity throughout the 3rd Imperium's history here. With Corridor to trailing being established with double-stacked Number ed Fleets, I think the Deneb-fortress mentality less an issue, as more of a centered Naval architects/ supply & logistics region with competitive worlds and shipyards--(Vincennes leading the way of course!) on IN vessels and weapon systems.

The validity of the mish-mash here can be angled from a regionally secure Imperial Sector, to a buffer-bridgehead region. With the Depot System here, the Imperial Sector Fleet of Deneb enjoys a considerable edge over the Marches Fleet in R & D, overhauls, and a larger quantity of mothballed vessels. Politically, this Sector has a diversity spread across it than can be confusing until a major war-time event shakes the dust off and folk get organized to deal with it.

Defintely needs to be redone!
_____________________________________________________________
* Worlds with Hi-tech of TL-E through F and populations less than 5, I did not list as economic hubs. IMO even with advanced semi-autonomous automation and robotics, pop 5 cuts it. Pashus is mentioned only because it holds an Imperial Research base.[/u]

 

[Liam Devlin]

I also forgot to add the Deneb office of GeDeCo from the Trojan Reaches/ Aliens: Aslan book...good for a high-Soc level campaign of corporate intrigue & malfeasance discovery! :twisted:

 

[daryen]

The bad thing about Deneb is that it is 90% controlled by the Imperium, and has been for centuries. But, then you can always turn that around and make it a good thing. Deneb is directly adjacent to the Spinward Marches, but it is, for all intents and purposes, and established Imperial sector. That means it is ripe for all sorts of political intrigue and cloak-n-dagger stuff.

As far as worlds, don't forget Askigaak! While it is "only" TL C, it has a ridiculous population. Just keeping things politically working (it probably has to import a lot of food) is a great adventure opportunity all by itself.

But, again I ask, more than just collating all of the existing stuff together, please breathe new life into this ignored sector. Don't be constrained by the written history of Deneb. Rather, use it as inspiration to create new!

 

[Liam Devlin]

The bad thing about Deneb is that it is 90% controlled by the Imperium, and has been for centuries. But, then you can always turn that around and make it a good thing. Deneb is directly adjacent to the Spinward Marches, but it is, for all intents and purposes, and established Imperial sector. That means it is ripe for all sorts of political intrigue and cloak-n-dagger stuff.

Concur!

As far as worlds, don't forget Askigaak! While it is "only" TL C, it has a ridiculous population. Just keeping things politically working (it probably has to import a lot of food) is a great adventure opportunity all by itself.

Askigaak (0629)/Starlane-I/ E549AA8-C Hi Ht In 901
Yes, 90billions on a world the size of Mars, and a single gas giant in-system; and only an E-class Downport, 90% Hydrosphere/ 10% land. LL-8 (Landing by Imperial Agents only).

Unlike the Marches' example of Entrope (pop 9) with an E-class port (Former orbital destroyed in war); I'd say the dictatorship of Askigaak deliberately controls his/her population & economy with this kind of starport. Even at TL-C, I'd say Askigaak has multiple undersea arcologies, and the diet of the average citizen has a lot of aquacultural products in it.

Judging from it on its face, I'd love to do a write up for it! I'm with you however, a "redo" isn't what's called for; because at 0729, Norg, there's an A-class shipyard, & Naval Base, with a populaton of 1!!!

According to Mssr Berka's notes here:
http://zho.berka.com/data/CLASSIC/menu.pl?planY=YYYSectorYYYDataYYY&subsector=&sector=DENEB&realsubnameY=&subsectorletter=&menufile=../CLASSIC/DENEB/GEN/../MAP/DATA

The entire Sector was Sunbane generated--and for thems (like me & other TNE heretics) what likes harder science-planets, there's an awful lot of settlement on non-hospitable worlds & worlds with atmospheres we know today cannot sustain hardly any due to gravitational size! Planets with Air-breathable atmospheres begin around Size 4 diameter.

X100+'s-- (12)*
X110+'s-- (3)
X120+'s-- (2)
X130+'s-- (3)
X140+'s-- (4)
X150+'s-- (1)
______________
Total to redo UWP = 13x Size-1 worlds

X200+'s-- (8 )*
X210+'s-- (8 )
X220+'s-- (3)
X230+'s-- (8 )
X240+'s-- (6)
X250+'s-- (2)
X260+'s-- (2)
X270+'s-- (1)
_____________
Total to redo UWP = 30x Size-2 worlds

X300+'s-- (8 )*
X310+'s-- (8 )*
X320+'s-- (8 )
X330+'s-- (7)
X340+'s-- (7)
X350+'s-- (7)
X360+'s-- (7)
X370+'s-- (2)
X380+'s-- (2)
______________
Total to redo UWP = 40x Size-3 worlds

But, again I ask, more than just collating all of the existing stuff together, please breathe new life into this ignored sector. Don't be constrained by the written history of Deneb. Rather, use it as inspiration to create new!

Concur--starting with the UWP's! There's 83 worlds that need a touch up. _____________________________________________________________
* Sustainable Atmosphere for relative size world due to gravity. An acceptable alternative to Size 3 is X3A0???-#, with outer/ Inner zone penalties for hydrosphere; usually seen as a gas giant satellite moon.

 

[rje]

Seems like subsector L might be 'administered', as well.

I find it interesting that there's no archduke.

 

[GypsyComet]

I find it interesting that there's no archduke.

Prior to the reinstatement of the office there would be only the pecking order of seniority among the Dukes. The Domain of Deneb (which includes the Marches) was the last of the Domains to have the office of Archduke reinstated, IIRC.

 

[rje]

Reinstatement of hierarchy could mean the pecking order is still a bit fluid. Could yield interesting local conflict.

As far as UWP data goes, Don McKinney's got a cleaned-up version. More tweaks can be done as needed, on a world-by-world basis.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Seems like subsector L might be 'administered', as well.

I find it interesting that there's no archduke.

Agreed. This then adjusts the Deneb Sector to 13 (a Baker's Dozen) Subsector Dukes, and a Sector Duke.

Gypsy Comet wrote:

Prior to the reinstatement of the office there would be only the pecking order of seniority among the Dukes. The Domain of Deneb (which includes the Marches) was the last of the Domains to have the office of Archduke reinstated, IIRC.

This is in the OTU-timeline, a post-5th FW decison by the Emperor Strephon...

 

[Liam Devlin]

Reinstatement of hierarchy could mean the pecking order is still a bit fluid. Could yield interesting local conflict.

As far as UWP data goes, Don McKinney's got a cleaned-up version. More tweaks can be done as needed, on a world-by-world basis.

This would be fascinating to work on. I prefer settlement for a reason, and populations that relflect the Starship yards-Ports they support myself (before the advent of GURPS: Starports & MgT's Starports).

I do note that in MgT's Reft Sector remake, that the High Pop, High tech, Industrialized world of Lintl was changed from TL-F to TL-E, and its govt E (Religious Autocracy)changed to D (Religious Dictatorship)...

So there IS precedence for common sense changes already in Mongoose's line of works already. 8) :wink:

 

[rje]

So there IS precedence for common sense changes already in Mongoose's line of works already. 8) :wink:

Yes sir.

And for other eras and versions of Traveller as well. I know of one initial pass that was made a few years ago, to align Imperial worlds better against AOTI where appropriate, and a pass that was made to reconcile Core sector with some problems that cropped up during the T4 days.

Lately, I believe Don McKinney is the go-to guy, the Minister of UWP Reconciliation, perhaps.

 

[Liam Devlin]

So there IS precedence for common sense changes already in Mongoose's line of works already. 8) :wink:

Yes sir.

And for other eras and versions of Traveller as well. I know of one initial pass that was made a few years ago, to align Imperial worlds better against AOTI where appropriate, and a pass that was made to reconcile Core sector with some problems that cropped up during the T4 days.

Lately, I believe Don McKinney is the go-to guy, the Minister of UWP Reconciliation, perhaps.

And where, Mssr Eaglestone, does one go to contact said "Go-to" guy?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Back to why Deneb needs "re-do/ & more importantly, "re-working" from UWP standpoints.
Technology

Technology disparities between a "Frontier-Sector" (e.g the 'Marches) & a settled Buffer Imperial Sector (with 1,000 years of "settlement/ administration")--Deneb. There is obviously a well established Sector Nobility, given the sheer number of high-technology worlds and ownership predominately in Imperial hands in Deneb--that cannot be denied. What I cannot explain away with reasonable success of plausibility is the slipshod/ shoddy planetary UWP's cut n pasted from the Marches then slapped up with different popuations, governments, and in some cases, extreme-police state High Law levels!

All water under the bridge of course (More a pro-towards fixin' the mess in the reprint than anything else) for we happy few... :wink:

Some beforehand knowledge:
SM has 12x Imperial Subsectors, 1x Darrian, 1x Sword World Subsector, 2x Zhodani Subsectors. By Contrast, Deneb's 16 Subsectors are all Imperial (with a few Vargr border worlds in A-D ss). Deneb's L, O, & P ss are stellar sparse, and probably either an amalgamated administrative region, or tied to adjacent regions for those purposes.

Worlds with TL12 (Milieu-0 3rd Imperial standard):
:arrow: SM-- 23 (12x Imperial, 5x Zhodani, 2x Sword Worlders, 2x Non-aligned, 1x Client State, & 1x Darrian/ Subsector Capitals: 3x Imperial (Jewell, Regina, & Iderati, 1x Zhodani (Lebeau) )

versus

:arrow: Deneb-- 31 (29 Imperial, & 2x Client States/ Subsector Capitals x 4 (Lamas, Dunmag, Usani, & Zeng) )

Worlds with TL13
:arrow: SM-- 11 (8x Imperial, 1x Zhodani, 1x Client State, & 1x Darrian/ Subsectors Capitals x 3 =1x Imperial (Lunion),1x Zhodani (Cronor) 1x Client State (Collace)).

versus

:arrow: Deneb-- 16 (15x Imperial, & 1x Client State/ Subsectors capitals x 0, 1x Sector Capital--Deneb )

Worlds with TL14
:arrow: SM-- 3(3x Imperial/ Subsector capitals-- 0)

versus

:arrow: Deneb--16 (16x Imperial/ Subsector capitals x 3 (Antra, Arleshanuu, & Inar) )

Worlds with TL15
:arrow: SM-- 4 (4x Imperial/ all 4 are Subsector Capitals! (Rhylanor, Mora, Glisten, & Trin

versus

:arrow: Deneb-- 10 (10x Imperial/ Subsector capitals x 4: (Magash, Atadl, Imone, & Quevar ))

Worlds with TL16
:arrow: SM--1 (Darrian/ also the subsector capital)

Versus

:arrow: Deneb--4 (4x Imperial (Depot, Vincennes, HRD, Pashus)/ 1x Subsector Capital--Vincennes)

Looking at the technology disparity above, one can reason *why* some worlds have remained static since founding, and others moved along technologically with the Imperium to some degree.

Population
& Law Levels

However, in population disparity for at least subsector Capitals, in the Spinward marches, the least Imperial capital, Iderati/ 5-Sisters at TL12, boasts a population of 7 (10's of millions)--and that is a frontier subsector in a Frontier Sector for cryin' out loud! Sheesh :roll: :roll: ; whereas in Deneb, we see vastly under populated (IMHO) "Subsector Capitals" like:

:?: Lamas/Lamas-B (1309) B7AA585-C N Fl Ht Ni Wa Cp
:?: Arleshanuu/ Million-D (3005) A262333-E N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Dunmag/ Dunmag-G (2413) A427138-C N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Imone/ Starlane-I (0826) A9C1555-F N Ht Fl Ni Cp
:?: Usani/ Usani-K (2225) A452699-C N Ht Ni Cp
:?: Geniishir/ Geniishir-L (2521) A110123-D N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Quevar/ Gulf-M (0731) A2326AE-F A Ht Ni Cp
:?: Zeng/ Zeng-N (1339) A226455-C N Ht Ni Cp

Heavens above, that's half of the Sector's subsector capitals when you count it all out! :shock: :roll: :x

My suggestions (besides my previous on the ridiculous planets that cannot hold air due to size getting fixed) are to bring the populations of these 8 up to at least pop 7 thru 9--if need be, trim the fat off some of the ultra-high pop worlds in the affected subsectors! Speaking of those...Then we have the ultra-highpop worlds that need serious looking at--for different reasons! (Yes, folks, Its high time to kill off the sacred cows of hand-wavium!) Our menu today has the following worlds on it--some we roll eyes on, & some that you may think entirely unreasonable of me to look at:


:?: ASHASI/ Inar-F (1618) E9D5AA8-C Fl Ht Hi 621 Im
:?: ASKIGAAK/ Starlane-I (0629) E549AA8-C Ht Hi In 901 Im
:?: DENEB/ Usani-K (1925) B537ADD-D N Hi Ht Cx 610 Im
:?: BEAXON/ Gulf-M (0439) D88AA99-C Ht Hi Wa 923 Im
:?: PIKHA/ Zeng-N (1633) B738A86-C Hi Ht 612 Im
:?: LILAD/ Zeng-N (1135) C447AAE-E Hi Ht In 824 Im


Ashasi and Pikha have of course planets of a size that can allow high populations based on living space, the drawback is on Ashasi where the atmosphere is type D, precluding living where the air is too dense to breathe without arcologies and pressurized dwellings of some sort. TL12 certainly affords them that, to be sure. Yet the Charismatic Dictatorship there has a Law Level of 8--meaning in Mongoose terms, no offworld immigration, and a captive population--not even the chance of escaping through Imperial military service! True the E-class Starport may have an Imperial LL 3 on its grounds, but access to offplanet is slammed shut to all but "to Imperial agents only"... Pikha of course has a moderate Civil service Bureaucracy to deal with its huge population, and at least off-the starport travel is possible at LL6, and a B-class orbital facility/ downport system. I would edit Pikha down to Pop 9 due to the availability of living mass, even with TL12 habitats in less than desirable land masses. Ashasi I would reduce to Pop 9 as well, for the same reasons--otherwise this place is an amber zone!!! :twisted:

Askigaak & Ashasi both have oppressive laws, Charismatic dictators, and E-class downports--again, making for a captive population that cannot/ are not allowed to immigrate offworld, but in Askigaak's case, less of a planet to live on! Definitely without pop reduction, an amber zone! Beaxon is marginally better than Askigaak & Ashasi, having a D-class downport, and LL9--again, oppressive laws vs immigration, even though LL3 applies in Starport. Another Amber Zone rating!

Lilad is in many respects like Askigaak, save they have an orbital C-class facility--yet an orbital starport does not alleviate population pressures of a size 4 world (less living space at TL12 than Askigaak). The Extreme law of E can be tightened down to MgT LL-9 and still keep the lid on things dirtside for an easy edit, or LL8, allowing only Imperial authorities entry off the starports at the very least! Again, I would reduce the population digit to 9, and rate the world an amber zone.

Last but not least is Deneb herself, again, on a small Mars-sized (8000km diameter) world and a buckton of folks! TL13 has early gravitic structures, but the extreme high law level of D prevents anyone from leaving the system by immigrtation, except as recruits into the Imperial Navy and Marines! I find it extremely odd that a power-controlling-its populace planet-wide faith is the Sector capital here!

While a Theocracy is a legitimate world form of government, why would you select THIS world to be the seat of power for the Sector? What religious faith is this? Was a former Emperor in the early settlement period of this faith? Why else would he/ she install the Sector Duke's seat here?

Edit fixes for Deneb--reduce the population to 9, or alter the form of government unless excellent background reason exists to put a Faith-bearing world above secular ones for the Sector Ducal Seat here. As the Imperium places no special favor to ANY one religion, it stands as an open-ended question to me as to WHY it was done (besides Sunbane CT generated shod work).

YMMV

 

[GypsyComet]

Last but not least is Deneb herself, again, on a small Mars-sized (8000km diameter) world and a buckton of folks! TL13 has early gravitic structures, but the extreme high law level of D prevents anyone from leaving the system by immigrtation, except as recruits into the Imperial Navy and Marines! I find it extremely odd that a power-controlling-its populace planet-wide faith is the Sector capital here!

While a Theocracy is a legitimate world form of government, why would you select THIS world to be the seat of power for the Sector? What religious faith is this? Was a former Emperor in the early settlement period of this faith? Why else would he/ she install the Sector Duke's seat here?

Edit fixes for Deneb--reduce the population to 9, or alter the form of government unless excellent background reason exists to put a Faith-bearing world above secular ones for the Sector Ducal Seat here. As the Imperium places no special favor to ANY one religion, it stands as an open-ended question to me as to WHY it was done (besides Sunbane CT generated shod work).

YMMV

The Regency Sourcebook actually describes the religion of Deneb. It is a bit odd, but rather more populist than the UWP law level would indicate. It may be one of those cases where the UWP assignments are a combination of "Scout's Best Guess" and "This is the face they show visitors."

 

[Liam Devlin]

Gypsy Comet wrote:

The Regency Sourcebook actually describes the religion of Deneb. It is a bit odd, but rather more populist than the UWP law level would indicate. It may be one of those cases where the UWP assignments are a combination of "Scout's Best Guess" and "This is the face they show visitors."

I had forgotten that, good catch! It doesn't answer my question however about a pre-5th Frontier War era Sector however. Yet the LL of D will need to be reassessed--the literal translation thereof in days of old was pretty scary stuff.

The GDW Regency Sourcebook does however show how then Regent (former Archduke) Norris' reforms corrected (or tried to) what once was though...and bring the democratic reforms to worlds like those I previously listed burdened by hard-line charismatic dictatorships with extreme high law oppressing personal freedoms.

 

[Liam Devlin]

It is astonishing to see that those six worlds have a grand ball park total of 440 BILLIONS between them btw!

As for Sector macro-plot conflicts...& using the TNE-era to "look back upon what once was", to some extent we can.

Subsectors A-D are much like the Marches, border frontier subsectors watching, or sort-of watching a Vargr Frontier for raider bands & trading via Oberlindes LIC & such with trade-friendly Vargr states/ worlds of Tuglikki Sector. Some bordering regions are more hostile than others, other borders quieter--so bickering about defense issues exists there, and strpnger Ss Capitals reflect this (Magash, e.g.), complacent/ relaxed ones rely on Imperial Navy might instead (> TLF ss Cp's).

Economic-wise-- the BIG SIX worlds (Pikha, Askigaak, Deneb, Ashasi, Beaxon, & Lilad) amass a hella-economic output of TL12 & TL13 items in manufacture--yet the E-class worlds wish it appears to be exporters of their wares only, and take on less imported items (reflected by Port type & LL for this view). Tukera LIC and other Sector lines of course are willing to ship it out to the galactic market all the TL-12 *Ht* goods they can move. Vincennes (pop A, TL-G) at TL16 dominates the high-end of manufacture, mainly in TL15 wares, leading the High-pop TL-F worlds of course (earning a 5% discount at +1 TL over that, and +10% for all TL14 items & so on), and is the cutting edge of the new frontier of technology in the Sector. These worlds provide the bulk of mfg goods to the Marches.

Navy wise--
Vincennes (TL-G), again dominates, and has obviously established ties with Depot, HRD, & at Pashus for expansion of technological research & development. The other TL15 worlds (Magash, Atadl, Imone, Quevar) and the TL14 worlds (Antra, Arleshanuu, Inar) play catch-up, and technologically/ population wise compete for the contracts of the Navy here fiercely! The Navy here has a well established reputation, and is enjoying its popularity keeping the spacelanes free of trade wars and occasional Vargr threats to date. Trouble is, most of the units have not seen action in a great long time, and may not be as sharp as they appear "on paper"...

Nobility-wise--(by base TL level)
:arrow: The Duchy of Pretoria (Ss-A) is the definitive TL12 picture of the status-quo, believes the navy can resolve everything Duchy along the border with Tuglikki, having outsourced its TL12 manufacturing to Carthage/ SS-A (0202) B2107B9-C & Urnas/ Ss-A (0609) D120974-C.

:arrow: The Duchy of Zeng (Ss-N), with two of the BIG SIX worlds (PIKHA & LILAD) might be a "cultural backwater" along the Great Reft side of the Sector, but even at TL12, the economic pull of this area cannot be denied in importance--something I am sure the Duchy doesn't hesitate to point out in self-importance whenever it can! Zeng's Duchy runs much of its trade spinwards into the Marches & spinwards-rimwards into the Trojan Reaches of course!

:arrow: The Duchy of Lamas (Ss-B) by comparison, will toot its own horn about keeping the staus-quo on the border with Tuglikki & keeping TL12 good flowing over the border in the balance of trade with the Pro-trade Vargr worlds corewards of it.

:arrow: The Duchy of Dunmag (Ss-G) is aligned much like Zeng, pushing the the TL12 economic Imperial model to its own limits.

:arrow: The Duchy of Usani (Ss-K) somewhat overshadowed economically by TL13 Deneb itself, it forms the linkage in the TL12 goods & services linkage between Zeng and Dunmag's towards the corewards borders. Often seen as the quiet voice in the back of the room.

:arrow: The Sector Duchy of Deneb (Ss-K), backed by 60 billion adherents of a populist faith, this one-world power and seat of the Sector government is the TL13 powerhouse of that level of Imperial Goods & Services. The Sector Duke is no doubt a juggler, and magician keeping the status-quo tech12 Dukes and Press-ahead tech14+ Dukedoms all aligned as best/ he she can, as well as appear even-handed to its population base.

:arrow: The Duchy of Antra (Ss-C) a chief proponet of a stronger technological Imperium, and tougher fleet defense issues at the Border with Tuglikki Sector.

:arrow: The Duchy of Arleshanuu (Ss-D), another pro-technology advancing Duchy, and Antra's yes-man to some extent in the Sector-government Though it may perhaps be too reliant on the adjacent Corridor Fleets to trailing.

:arrow: The Duchy of Inar (Ss-F) is perhaps the most balanced of the powerful pro- Ht Duchies, having many high-population worlds to support TL12-16 here (Ashasi (12); Kubishush & Liiri (13); Starn (15) ), and hosts TL-G Depot here.

:arrow: The Duchy of Magash/ Sabine (Ss-E)--A Stalwart pro-tech alliance dukedom, and has strong ties with the Duchy of Rhylanor. It is economically backstopped by the Hi-pop wolrd of Thingen (TL13). Pro-tech, but oddly status-quo on the border issue.

:arrow: The Duchy of Atadl/Atsah (Ss-H), is a lesser version of Inar, but carries a good mix of worlds in the Ht spectrum itself, and is part of the pro-stronger border bloc.

:arrow: The Duchy of Imone/ Starlane (Ss-E), Like the Duchy of Magash, is however strongly aligned with the neighboring Duchy of Mora. They however are simply taking Askigaak's output and applying it into Higher tech items like pharmaceuticals, vehicles, robots, computers and vessels. Facing off with the other pro-Tech Dukedoms, Imone's Lord is a poseur.

:arrow: The Duchy of Quevar/ Gulf (Ss-M), is attempting to position itself like the balanced Duchy of Inar, but is held back by the Status-quo world of TL12 Beaxon. Attempts at allowing immigration to these other worlds to match Inar have failed to date.

:arrow: The Duchy of Vincennes (Ss-J)-- the plum of the Subsector seats of power. Most of what can be said of it has been already here. They are the richest, and most powerful of the subsector Lords, outshining even Neighboring Mora to spinwards. Their downfall is their pride, and over-diversification. Their focus on the future puts them at risk for the perils that lie before them, and have befallen others in certain fields of technology.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Deneb Subsector Dukedoms (Cont'd)

Duchy of Geniishir (Ss-L)--As noted from GDW TNE: 1201 Regency Sourcebook--one of the flaws of the former 3rd Imperium was the establishment of this region, despite having but 200 million total population and four worlds, had a representative Noble for it.

Adding however the two coreward worlds of the Geniishir Main of Erita (2519) & Kiirindor (2520), and the adjoining cluster world to Newpenton (2721) of Gampin (2820) hardly makes it a *huge* fiefdom, as these worlds lie in the rimwards corner of Atsah-Subsector H. Vast Heaven's Ss-P's two worlds are too far away to be effecitively administered from here, and thus should fall under whomever is designated in administration of Kamlar-O Ss (also a small region of border space along the Great Reft).

In looking at the possibilities of political blocs of Deneb, Geniishir's nDucal Noble falls into line for the head count purposes of countering "The Status-quo" TL12- bloc, and close political ally to the Sector Ducal seat at Deneb (also TL13). The greater population based driven Duchies probably make noises about the power of this seat's voice in comparison to theirs, but as the Sector Duke has but one person over him/her currently (the Emperor), they cannot make too much *noise* about it. :twisted:

This brings the pre-5Th Frontier war Sector of Deneb up to 14 "Duchies", Geniishir's being the weakest one politically & economically (by population & technology output of goods & services).

 

[Liam Devlin]

Population
& Law Levels

However, in population disparity for at least subsector Capitals, in the Spinward marches, the least Imperial capital, Iderati/ 5-Sisters at TL12, boasts a population of 7 (10's of millions)--and that is a frontier subsector in a Frontier Sector for cryin' out loud! Sheesh :roll: :roll: ; whereas in Deneb, we see vastly under populated (IMHO) "Subsector Capitals" like:

:?: Lamas/Lamas-B (1309) B7AA585-C N Fl Ht Ni Wa Cp
:?: Arleshanuu/ Million-D (3005) A262333-E N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Dunmag/ Dunmag-G (2413) A427138-C N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Imone/ Starlane-I (0826) A9C1555-F N Ht Fl Ni Cp
:?: Usani/ Usani-K (2225) A452699-C N Ht Ni Cp
:?: Geniishir/ Geniishir-L (2521) A110123-D N Ht Lo Ni Cp
:?: Quevar/ Gulf-M (0731) A2326AE-F A Ht Ni Cp
:?: Zeng/ Zeng-N (1339) A226455-C N Ht Ni Cp

Heavens above, that's half of the Sector's subsector capitals when you count it all out! :shock: :roll: :x

My suggestions (besides my previous on the ridiculous planets that cannot hold air due to size getting fixed) are to bring the populations of these 8 up to at least pop 7 thru 9--if need be, trim the fat off some of the ultra-high pop worlds in the affected subsectors! Speaking of those...Then we have the ultra-highpop worlds that need serious looking at--for different reasons! (Yes, folks, Its high time to kill off the sacred cows of hand-wavium!) Our menu today has the following worlds on it--some we roll eyes on, & some that you may think entirely unreasonable of me to look at:


:?: ASHASI/ Inar-F (1618) E9D5AA8-C Fl Ht Hi 621 Im
:?: ASKIGAAK/ Starlane-I (0629) E549AA8-C Ht Hi In 901 Im
:?: DENEB/ Usani-K (1925) B537ADD-D N Hi Ht Cx 610 Im
:?: BEAXON/ Gulf-M (0439) D88AA99-C Ht Hi Wa 923 Im
:?: PIKHA/ Zeng-N (1633) B738A86-C Hi Ht 612 Im
:?: LILAD/ Zeng-N (1135) C447AAE-E Hi Ht In 824 Im


Ashasi and Pikha have of course planets of a size that can allow high populations based on living space, the drawback is on Ashasi where the atmosphere is type D, precluding living where the air is too dense to breathe without arcologies and pressurized dwellings of some sort. TL12 certainly affords them that, to be sure. Yet the Charismatic Dictatorship there has a Law Level of 8--meaning in Mongoose terms, no offworld immigration, and a captive population--not even the chance of escaping through Imperial military service! True the E-class Starport may have an Imperial LL 3 on its grounds, but access to offplanet is slammed shut to all but "to Imperial agents only"... Pikha of course has a moderate Civil service Bureaucracy to deal with its huge population, and at least off-the starport travel is possible at LL6, and a B-class orbital facility/ downport system. I would edit Pikha down to Pop 9 due to the availability of living mass, even with TL12 habitats in less than desirable land masses. Ashasi I would reduce to Pop 9 as well, for the same reasons--otherwise this place is an amber zone!!! :twisted:

Askigaak & Ashasi both have oppressive laws, Charismatic dictators, and E-class downports--again, making for a captive population that cannot/ are not allowed to immigrate offworld, but in Askigaak's case, less of a planet to live on! Definitely without pop reduction, an amber zone! Beaxon is marginally better than Askigaak & Ashasi, having a D-class downport, and LL9--again, oppressive laws vs immigration, even though LL3 applies in Starport. Another Amber Zone rating!

Lilad is in many respects like Askigaak, save they have an orbital C-class facility--yet an orbital starport does not alleviate population pressures of a size 4 world (less living space at TL12 than Askigaak). The Extreme law of E can be tightened down to MgT LL-9 and still keep the lid on things dirtside for an easy edit, or LL8, allowing only Imperial authorities entry off the starports at the very least! Again, I would reduce the population digit to 9, and rate the world an amber zone.

Last but not least is Deneb herself, again, on a small Mars-sized (8000km diameter) world and a buckton of folks! TL13 has early gravitic structures, but the extreme high law level of D prevents anyone from leaving the system by immigrtation, except as recruits into the Imperial Navy and Marines! I find it extremely odd that a power-controlling-its populace planet-wide faith is the Sector capital here!

While a Theocracy is a legitimate world form of government, why would you select THIS world to be the seat of power for the Sector? What religious faith is this? Was a former Emperor in the early settlement period of this faith? Why else would he/ she install the Sector Duke's seat here?

Edit fixes for Deneb--reduce the population to 9, or alter the form of government unless excellent background reason exists to put a Faith-bearing world above secular ones for the Sector Ducal Seat here. As the Imperium places no special favor to ANY one religion, it stands as an open-ended question to me as to WHY it was done (besides Sunbane CT generated shod work).

YMMV

Borlund/ Lamas-B (1406) E454AAA-9 Hi 701
Giikusu/ Dunmag-G (2316) E647ABC-B Hi In 105

Are two other major Ultra-Hi-pop worlds of Deneb with Size and Law Level issues not rated as amber zones. Again in Borlund we have a charimatic dictatorship with absolute control of the planet's immigration policies (LL-9+), and no Imperial bases for inhabitants to escape off from. Again, an E-class Downport, maximizing control for the world's government and harnessed for export-traffic of manufactured there only it seems.

Giikusu is little better, has a full-blown paramilitary police LL present, and has TL11 at least for its ability to make do on the planetary environment vs population issues. The other minor difference is that it is governed by an Non-charismatic dictatorship.

These two added to the ones above, bring up the Ultra-pop world total to 520Billions...

Which brings me to speculate that several things about How Deneb was settled, and why these worlds have the law levels they do, and off-world immigration troubles to go along with them.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Finally, we continue fleshing out the Third Imperium, with a brand new sector to explore.

July 2011

26th July, 2011, and no sign of Deneb.

Is this still in the queue?

Or is Liam Devlin writing it on line on this thread (fine by me)

Egil

 

[rust]

Using the search function of Mongoose's website to search for "Deneb
Sector" results in "no such product" - not now and not anywhere in the
pipeline.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

So what was AndrewW going on about? :?

Ho hum, there is still plenty of Spinward Marches, not to mention Trojan Reach and Gvurddon!

Egil