Solomani666
Mongoose
-Deleted-
-Deleted-
- Thread starter Solomani666
- Start date
Wait, so he is duplicating threads when someone comments with any off topic or non-constructive?
Dude, lighten up. Let the other thread run. It'll come back on track eventually, people here are pretty good at discussing the OP even if it does get off track at times. Multiple posting purposefully is more likely to make people irritated and post annoying, off topic stuff.
Dude, lighten up. Let the other thread run. It'll come back on track eventually, people here are pretty good at discussing the OP even if it does get off track at times. Multiple posting purposefully is more likely to make people irritated and post annoying, off topic stuff.
Actually, no, sorry I have to add to that.
You appear to have killed the previous thread because a) someone pointed out some sci-fi that would help, and b) atpollard criticised your ideas. Negative criticism is not a bad thing, it is still constructive, and better than "your ideas are rubbish, why don't you give up". Your ideas will not always be perfect on first go.
You appear to have killed the previous thread because a) someone pointed out some sci-fi that would help, and b) atpollard criticised your ideas. Negative criticism is not a bad thing, it is still constructive, and better than "your ideas are rubbish, why don't you give up". Your ideas will not always be perfect on first go.
Dark Lord Skippy
Mongoose
Yeah, I've seen several of his posts on here and I got the distinct feeling he believed the word "weasel" under his name meant that he was the moderator.
DFW said:
*Grin* No reason you should have; when he pulled the switch, he changed the name on the old thread, presumably so he could reuse the title on this one. As to the feedback - *shrug* - who knows? He hasn't made a statement clarifying this.
But getting back to the topic at hand...
I'm not sure that such ships really need anything outside of what's already in the rules, but there's also no reason why you can't add such bonuses in your own game if you want to. I would just caution you that (1) if you grant such bonuses to one group, they should (with appropriate research/resource commitment) be available to all groups - that is to say, no single group should have "magic abilities" which break the rules others must live by, and (2) you should think very carefully about why you want to break/alter these rules - these are the baseline assumptions - the "basic laws of nature", if you will - of this universe, and changing them will have consequences.
Now that the comments on background have been established, I'll move on to specifics. The bit about "constructed from a single (mono) block of bonded superdense" - that could essentially be considered flavor text. It's already pretty much covered by the improved hulls at higher tech levels introduced in High Guard. The same applies to comments regarding components.
Quality control is a separate issue. If I were going to include something along these lines, I'd increase the price in return for some slight increase in quantified elements... and the increase in price is going to be considerably steeper than the quality increase. General product quality at any given tech level is already going to be fairly consistent - it will, for the most part, tend to be the highest quality which is cost-effective to produce, which means that higher quality, even if it is within the reach of known techniques, will be subject to the rules of diminishing returns.
Hull configuration - this sounds like a matter of cultural flavor. Different configurations are "better" for different purposes, but a significant bias such as this smacks more of precedent than necessity.
Luxuries, Frozen Watch, and standardization of reflec armor - again, this is more of a cultural item.
I would raise one question about these ships, however - do these modifications also apply to those ships commissioned from this culture by foreigners? For that matter, would manufacturers even be allowed to offer options which were primarily military in nature (reflec armor, for example) to foreign customers who were not cleared for such by the government? (Lest you think capitalism rules all, let me offer a real-world example: I work in the semiconductor industry - not on military tech, but high tech. There are federal regulations in place which restrict what information I can communicate to certain people, much less which commodities can be sold to them. So this sort of thing applies in the here and now - the far future isn't likely to alter that significantly.)
The cultural elements are more important to role-playing and strategic gaming - they don't really change shipbuilding, which is what you were originally asking about. FTL communications can change things, but since you've taken steps to preclude the systems entering J-space, they won't really apply to shipbuilding.
The bonuses you're considering...
(1) I would not allow armored bulkheads without committing hull space. Offering an option without including a trade-off is not really offering an option, since your "choice" is either to take the option or to pointlessly weaken yourself.
(2) Likewise, I wouldn't eliminate armor hits. Nothing, with the possible exception of a black hole, lasts forever. Anything artificial can be degraded.
(3) Multiplying hull and structure points is already included in the High Guard rules. Varying those multipliers is certainly your prerogative, but again, consider the consequences. 'Tis far better to measure twice and cut once.
(4) I would certainly allow that this culture would use the resilient option as the first choice on weapons, but I wouldn't give that attribute to them for free. Again, trade-offs need to be meaningful.
(5) Construction times are pretty much in the GM's hands anyway - you can set them as you wish. It would help to have some sort of system in place, but they can be varied largely at the GM's whim.
(6) As long as the prices come with the appropriate markup for these options, I wouldn't have any problem with the options being included as a default standard.
(7) No. This is an example of one of those "magic abilities" I mentioned earlier, and it is drastically unbalancing. If it's available to one group, it should be available to all - and if it's available to all, something this powerful will rapidly become the default, simply because if this is a possibility, soon everyone will either have it or be eliminated.
If you make higher quality available at a higher cost (say, a 25% improvement for a 50% cost increase, or a 50% improvement for a 125% cost increase, as two examples) you can have a group such as this with improved equipment which other groups might, or might not opt to buy. This won't involve any rule-bending... at least, not any rule-bending which doesn't apply equally to all.
Bottom line: I would make it a firm policy that any rules changes should apply equally to all, whether PC or NPC. If you want some people to take advantage of the changes while others do not, make sure there is a plausible reason in-game - don't arbitrarily apply one set of rules to one group and another set to a different group.
I feel they should pay for what ever extras they want
Yes it may cost more but that is the theme behind them they have the best ships
while ships under 10,000 tons may be cast as a single crystal with armor included holes will be made in them when weapons penetrate and this will compromise the structure as a whole
In this case size does not matter if you piss off too many of those nearby you
I'm going to figure this pocket empire has the same GDP as the others nearby(otherwise somebody may ally with others to take what they have and now they are 1/8, 1/12 ,1/16,etc)
what protects the comm sataites from being being observed,destroyed or stolen
How are they powered
as a transmitter they can be detected when they open a jump gate to beam a transmission through
As a theme for an Empire I have no problem
not paying for the extras well it's your game and your players will have to make a choice if they want to play that way
Yes it may cost more but that is the theme behind them they have the best ships
while ships under 10,000 tons may be cast as a single crystal with armor included holes will be made in them when weapons penetrate and this will compromise the structure as a whole
In this case size does not matter if you piss off too many of those nearby you
I'm going to figure this pocket empire has the same GDP as the others nearby(otherwise somebody may ally with others to take what they have and now they are 1/8, 1/12 ,1/16,etc)
what protects the comm sataites from being being observed,destroyed or stolen
How are they powered
as a transmitter they can be detected when they open a jump gate to beam a transmission through
As a theme for an Empire I have no problem
not paying for the extras well it's your game and your players will have to make a choice if they want to play that way
Solomani666 said:
Ultimately, they don't really need 'bonuses' per se - at TL16 with cost-is-no-object you can essentially build whatever the hell you want to within the core rules with little effort.
Flavour text it may be, but it should affect the way it's designed. Given that description, the first thing you should be buying is your TL's worth of Bonded Superdense and armoured bulkheads for everything (including the armour itself - a solid block will take significantly more pounding before it develops any worthwhile fractures)
That means you're going to be spending 909 Dtons of your 10,000 on armoured bulkheads (capable of protecting 9,090 Dtons of other systems).
In addition, Bonded Superdense/16 will take up another 1334 Dtons on armour, for a total of 2243 Dtons per 'block' on protecty stuff.
Increasing Hull and Structure will come by default on a TL16 hull
Reflec, Radiation Shielding, Fib & Bis Computers, all fine - they cost money, not space, and you've already said that cash doesn't matter.
If you want to include really high tech stuff - as in 'you what!?!?' levels of technology, then I suggest you grab a copy of Universe of and Warships of Babylon 5 (it'll have to be a second hand one, sadly) as that incorporates the tech used in building ancient ships (Vorlons & Shadows), with things like bio-lattice armour (think bonded super-super-dense!), internal fuel generation, etc, etc.
Obvious starting question is: How will these ships appear? That is, are they things that the players will occasionally see (and run away from!), things the players may have to face, or things the players will get the opportunity to buy?
If the latter, it becomes easier to balance - whilst the pocket empire's budget may be unlimited, the players most definitely aren't - as noted, following traveller's semi-standard rules of 25% improvement for a 50% cost increase, or a 50% improvement for a 125% cost increase is fine - if you want to increase the durability of hulls ridiculously, apply those volume reductions to the size of armoured bulkheads and reinforced hull/structure. The players will be hopping up and down with glee until they see the price tag!
If they have to fight them, then it becomes far more awkward becuase they have to have a chance. Too many special rules is going to rapidly unbalance it to the point that they become target practice...
Solomani666
Mongoose
-Deleted-
Yes. It's important to remember the true meaning of Valentines day -
a man being violently beaten and beheaded because others found him annoying.
a man being violently beaten and beheaded because others found him annoying.
