Darklands Character Classes

[locarno24]

Other than This thread, are there any 'evil' character classes?

Darklands as a book is obviously something to get for reference, but are there character classes in it? Also, is there any real reference material re Gnaag's ascencion as Archlord? Or where the Doomstones were between Zagarna finding them all (supposedly in one place) and Lone Wolf coming across and destroying several (Nyras, Castle Death, Kalte)?

We're is looking at running a Darklands game - specifically we wanted to try and do a 'doomstone quest' - more or less simultaneously with LW's lorestone quest - as one of the elements of the Darklands civil war. The aim is that the characters be some trusted (by Darklord standards) minions of one of the survivors, and are trying to help him end up on top of the pile.

Any suggestions on source material, characters, advice, welcome.


The 'briefing' that we came up with:

So. The invasion was going like clockwork until half the population of Durenor suddenly hoved into view over the horizon. Now the only clockwork it resembles are those irritating “uncrackable” combination locks that the Nadziranim are forever trying to pretend provide some degree of security to important parts of your master’s fortress.

The death-hulk fleet has apparently been annihilated, taking with it the cream of the Drakkarim marines and assault veterans, and the siege of Holmgard has been broken, leaving the rest of the army fleeing back to the Darklands with the Sommlending and Durenese hot on their heels, the giak forces losing in the process more troops than they can count (which does mean casualties could be as low as five, but that seems optimistic).

To make the rout worse, the survivors have no commander in the field because the only Darklord who accompanied them out of the Darklands, Archlord Zagarna – the blunt instrument’s blunt instrument - has been barbequed by some teenage squit of a Kai that Vonotar’s supposedly infallible ‘pre-emptive strike’ somehow missed (he’ll get his later). All told, it doesn’t get much worse than this.

…Except…if the Archlord’s dead, then that means the thrones of Kaag and Helgedad are vacant, and the Doomstones – wherever Zagarna hid them – belong to whoever can find and seize them. Slûtar, Gnaag, Dakushana and the rest aren’t going to let their agents sit on their hands (or claws, or tentacles), and your patron won’t either. This is the Archlordship as a prize for the first time since the battle of Maakengorge. Time to assemble the minions…

 

[Zorkaan]

Hi Locarno24,

Sadly, there are no dark character classes in The Darklands for the Multiplayer Gamebook (whereas there were character classes in The Darklands for the d20 system RPG).

The places where the Doomstones of Agarash were hidden when the Darklords looked for them after Vashna's defeat are not indicated too in The Darklands, partly because Joe Dever intends to reveal them later (we will have to be patient). However, the rationale for how the Doomstone of Ikaya arrived in Kalte after the rise of Archlord Zagarna is explained in the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter 5 that you can download on Project Aon. There is still no published rationales explaining why the Doomstone of Darke arrived in the Cenerese Temple of Antah after the death of Darklord Dakushna in MS 5070, and why the Doomstone of Kazan-Oud arrived in Dessi after the rise of Archlord Zagarna. Anyway you will find additional data about the Doomstone of Kazan-oud in the sourcebook Magnamund Bestiary for the Multiplayer Gamebook, and in the novel Labyrinth - The Secret of Kazan-Oud.

Regarding Gnaag's ascention as Archlord between MS 5055 and 5060, you will find important information in The Darklands, that mainly concern his privileged relationships with the Nadziranim, his secret resources and organization in the Darklands (notably in his own province of Zutzinozaga, where can be found his fortress-city of Mozgoâr). You'll see that Gnaag's most important victory was simply a political one, but it did not prevent that other Darklords, for their part, were looking for the Doomstones. These information go by the events described in the novels Legends of Lone Wolf (mainly The Claws of Helgedad and The Equinoctial Legends).

 

[locarno24]

the rationale for how the Doomstone of Ikaya arrived in Kalte after the rise of Archlord Zagarna is explained in the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter 5 that you can download on Project Aon

Yeah, that one I'd seen.

There is still no published rationales explaining why the Doomstone of Darke arrived in the Cenerese Temple of Antah after the death of Darklord Dakushna in MS 5070, and why the Doomstone of Kazan-Oud arrived in Dessi after the rise of Archlord Zagarna.

You know, I never registered that was a Cener temple. Cadak's minions got everywhere, didn't they?

Anyway you will find additional data about the Doomstone of Kazan-oud in the sourcebook Magnamund Bestiary for the Multiplayer Gamebook

Hmm.. I figured that the Bestiary would probably be important - most of the bad guys become regular NPCs and vice-versa.

Regarding Gnaag's ascention as Archlord between MS 5055 and 5060, you will find important information in The Darklands, that mainly concern his privileged relationships with the Nadziranim, his secret resources and organization in the Darklands (notably in his own province of Zutzinozaga, where can be found his fortress-city of Mozgoâr). You'll see that Gnaag's most important victory was simply a political one, but it did not prevent that other Darklords, for their part, were looking for the Doomstones.

Fair enough. The Nadziranim are, I think, always the key - Darklord civilization is pretty much Nadziranim/Liganim civilization:

~ Giaks are mass vat-spawned thugs and slave labour (and you need Nadziranim support to do it) that might as well be wearing redshirts over clone-trooper outfits.

~ Drakkarim are essentially sworn mercenaries (so you need political pull with the Drakkarim Warmarshall and the kika to pay them - so mines and slaves - so probably giaks - see above)

~ Most of the beasts (Doomwolves and Kraan) are either spawned or bred by Giak handlers. Again, the main supply of (sort of) edible meat in the darklands is also giak, so this also needs access to the vats.

~ Agents (Helghast or Vordak) are again spawned - which means Nadziranim but this time with a Darklord's direct involvement

~ The Vassagonian alliance was paid off via Nadziranim artefacts.

~ Liganim are kind of the one exception - they're Nadziranim minions but seemingly work independently and deal directly with the Darklords if senior enough (Taktaal wasn't especially surprised by a Liganim coming to speak with him directly or offering to betray another darklord to him).

But Nadziranim/Liganim are also probably the ones responsible for all the Darklord's awesome technology (ironclads, metalbringers, cannonry, etc, etc), which frankly makes the "look, I've got a handgun" of the Bor dwarves look a bit pathetic. I imagine the Darklords themselves may be involved but whilst Gnaag and Taktaal were the only ones in the tower with the transfusor, I can't picture them waiting around with a mug of tea and some adjustable spanners in case it broke down.

The big question-mark, then, is this ability hinted at in the Darke Crusade of the doomstones to obliterate/disable/compel the nadziranim to serve the wielder. If that's true of all the doomstones, then the Darklord who holds the most can essentialy hold the Nadziranim at gunpoint, regardless of what political deals they may have done with Gnaag. It might explain why Zagarna (who never seems either particularly politically or magically gifted) was able to keep them under control.

Will have to get a copy of the Claws of Helgedad and the Bestiary.

 

[Zorkaan]

You know, I never registered that was a Cener temple. Cadak's minions got everywhere, didn't they?

So this is a supplementary reason for you to read Magnamund Bestiary. In this supplement, Joe Dever and Darren Pearce uncovered the origins of the Temple of Antah . It is described in the section "Antah Wasps"...

Fair enough. The Nadziranim are, I think, always the key - Darklord civilization is pretty much Nadziranim/Liganim civilization:

Youre right!

But Nadziranim/Liganim are also probably the ones responsible for all the Darklord's awesome technology (ironclads, metalbringers, cannonry, etc, etc), which frankly makes the "look, I've got a handgun" of the Bor dwarves look a bit pathetic. I imagine the Darklords themselves may be involved but whilst Gnaag and Taktaal were the only ones in the tower with the transfusor, I can't picture them waiting around with a mug of tea and some adjustable spanners in case it broke down.

Indeed, Nadziranim are responsible for creating all the technology of the Darklands, even if sometimes this technology has been stolen to other civilisations (this specific problem will be uncovered by Joe Dever in further LW supplements ).

The big question-mark, then, is this ability hinted at in the Darke Crusade of the doomstones to obliterate/disable/compel the nadziranim to serve the wielder. If that's true of all the doomstones, then the Darklord who holds the most can essentialy hold the Nadziranim at gunpoint, regardless of what political deals they may have done with Gnaag. It might explain why Zagarna (who never seems either particularly politically or magically gifted) was able to keep them under control.

In Darke Crusade, the Doomstone of Darke is told to be the most powerful of all the Doomstones. It is so powerful that it can depower Grand Master Lone Wolf himself during his first encounter with Warlord Magnaarn! Thus, if it can weaken the slayer of 3 Archlords, I do think it can obliterate one Nadziran when coupled with the Nyras Sceptre. But it is probably not the case of all Doomstones, less powerful than the Doomstone of Darke.
However, when Archlord Zagarna rose to power, he had the Doomstone of Darke. Surprisingly, Darklord Dakushna got later the Doomstone of Darke and he did though not become Archlord. Thus we can guess that this Doomstone can threaten several Nadziranim, but not compell all of them to serve one Darklord. You will discover in the novel The Equinoctial Legends the full power of the Nadziranim when they are united!

Will have to get a copy of the Claws of Helgedad and the Bestiary.

In fact, the novel of the Legends of Lone Wolf you need at most is The Equinoctial Legends. The Claws of Helgedad only shows a part of Gnaag's scheme to become Archlord while Haakon and Slûtar are struggling for supreme power just after Zagarna's death, but The Equinoctial Legends describe precisely how Gnaag became Archlord in MS 5060.

 

[locarno24]

even if sometimes this technology has been stolen to other civilisations

The random technology is one thing that always makes Lone Wolf feel a little different. Everything from Ixiataaga's skeleton-manned "Nuclear Reactor" to the Crocaryx weapon teams with "Crystal Bazookas" springs to mind.

In fact, the novel of the Legends of Lone Wolf you need at most is The Equinoctial Legends. The Claws of Helgedad only shows a part of Gnaag's scheme to become Archlord while Haakon and Slûtar are struggling for supreme power just after Zagarna's death, but The Equinoctial Legends describe precisely how Gnaag became Archlord in MS 5060.

Right, so Equinoctal Legends is most important, followed by the Bestiary. Thanks. Never really got that far with the books; A Dark Door Opens and Eclipse of the Kai was all my local library had. That, and I found Alyss really, really annoying. I know her character is supposed to be, but still. When she actually turned up in Legacy of Vashna I just groaned and desperately hoped I'd have the opportunity to try and repeatedly hit her with the Sommerswerd.

However, when Archlord Zagarna rose to power, he had the Doomstone of Darke. Surprisingly, Darklord Dakushna got later the Doomstone of Darke and he did though not become Archlord. Thus we can guess that this Doomstone can threaten several Nadziranim, but not compell all of them to serve one Darklord.

Nevertheless, it seems a sensible sort of thing for a prospective Archlord to try and get hold of...
Equally, the Doomstone of Kazan-Oud was (reading between the lines) able to hold one of Nyxator's Lorestones in equal balance, so that can't be a bad one to have, either. Lastly, although they never found them in the canon series, would the Darklords have known about Agarash's runes?

 

[SnowShadow]

would the Darklords have known about Agarash's runes?

I think you can almost certainly bank on it. In fact not only will they have heard of them but, whilst in the process of doing everything else, have been actively searching for them along with any rumours of other Naar artefacts - real or not. The sheer power of the Runes and their religious significance puts them on a par in our world with such items as the Holy Grail and Ark of the Covenant as depicted in the Indiana Jones films.

We know that the Darklords use agents to infiltrate countries long before they invade but why is that? Joe states that they aid greatly in the conflict; like chess pieces occupying innocent seeming positions that suddenly produce a checkmate from apparently nowhere and that certainly is true in the books. So the question is what exactly are they doing in the weeks, months or even years before? Well apart from consolidating their position you can bet they are using the time to investigate as much lore as possible, particularly that pertaining to long lost artefacts. Imagine it, when the Darklord armies literally steamroll across Magnamund can you see a Liganim in Varetta's Halls of Learning poring through old scrolls whilst Giaks and Drakkarim mutilate the librarians?

"Can you please keep the screams down, I'm trying to read!" :wink:

No, far better to find out ancient lore long before a war, when the librarians can even unwittingly 'help'. That way you know what not to destroy and what you can use for bargaining.

You could go further and say that all the Darklords Wars (Gnaags', Zagarnas', etc.) where we understand that they are intent on conquering Magnamund are only a part of their real purpose - the recovery of lost dark artefacts. The Darklords would know that the Runes of Agarash, for example, are somewhere outside of the Darklands, presumably in Northern Magnamund. All they would need to do would be to breed huge numbers of cannon-fodder (which they do, look at the giak-nets Zagarna used) to keep them with troops until the limitless Vorka, etc. could be created. Fits perfectly the nature of evil. In fact are they intent on conquering Magnamund or are they really only on their way to Dessi and all the other countries just happen to lie in between? After all the Elder Magi were able to contain Kazan Oud who knows what secret dark items they are holding under magical lock and key, or even perhaps the Darklords know of something in the ruins of Kazan Oud not even Zahda knew of and they are making their way there...

As for technology? Yes the Crocaryx in Bk 9 have been under Tahou for hundreds (thousands?) of years and yet have advanced weapons. Well Book 19, Wolf's Bane, takes place on Avaros - a technically more advanced planet than Magnamund and almost certainly not the only one. It is possible that some of the tech you see comes from other worlds via Shadow Gates. This is absolutely not a dependable mode of transport of course but there are cases of beings coming from other dimensions - take the Shianti that discover Magnamund by accident, they may not be the only ones. We know that the Darklords destroyed races such as the winged Neboran but we know extremely little of them - did they have advanced technology that the Darklords stole? What of the Kundi? They can sense Shadow Gates, perhaps you could come up with a reason why - you could even suggest that they were once a very advanced race themselves but turned their back on technology when they saw what it had done in shame and have now forgotten all they knew. A bit like their friends the Shianti relinquishing the Moonstone, might help explain their close relationship. After all when the Shianti had the Moonstone they wouldn't need Kundi for Shadow Gate detection because they can create them themselves so when they gave it up they would again need the Kundi.

Just a few ideas,
Richard.

 

[Floribur]

Indeed, Nadziranim are responsible for creating all the technology of the Darklands, even if sometimes this technology has been stolen to other civilisations (this specific problem will be uncovered by Joe Dever in further LW supplements ).

There's already some elements about that in Dragons of Lencia by Richard Ford: we discover the Drakkarim of Nyras stole technology to the Dwarves of Bor (and by horrible manners).

I found Alyss really, really annoying. I know her character is supposed to be, but still. When she actually turned up in Legacy of Vashna I just groaned and desperately hoped I'd have the opportunity to try and repeatedly hit her with the Sommerswerd.

Wow, what a violent reaction!
Alyss is not my cup of tea, especially the way John Grant made her so powerful, but part of his mockery about the "serious things" is quite amusing. But I was happy Joe didn't develop too much this character in the gamebooks.
And hopefully, we don't have to consider most of Alyss elements in the Legends as canon. But many interesting elements can be considered as canon (and probably many of them are from Joe and not John), like the ones Zorkaan was talking about.

 

[SnowShadow]

But I was happy Joe didn't develop too much this character in the gamebooks.

Amen

 

[Floribur]

"Can you please keep the screams down, I'm trying to read!" :wink:

:mrgreen:

You could go further and say that all the Darklords Wars (Gnaags', Zagarnas', etc.) where we understand that they are intent on conquering Magnamund are only a part of their real purpose - the recovery of lost dark artefacts.

But why should they try to recover lost artefacts if not to use them to conquer Magnamund?
I agree with your idea of Darklords agents looking for these artefacts even in peace times, but such artefacts are only (better) ways to conquer, I don't think they should have been aims by themselves.

In fact are they intent on conquering Magnamund or are they really only on their way to Dessi and all the other countries just happen to lie in between?

I think if they had really wanted to conquer Dessi first of all, they should have invaded differently Northern Magnamund during the Darklands War: Dessi was almost the only Northern Magnamund country non invaded during this war. OK we can suppose they had powers to resist better than more "conventional" countries, but by Vassagonia and the Gulf of Tentarium, the Darklands and their Drakkarim allies could have try a sooner assault, before using most of their forces to invade all the countries between their territory and Dessi.

Book 19, Wolf's Bane, takes place on Avaros - a technically more advanced planet than Magnamund and almost certainly not the only one. It is possible that some of the tech you see comes from other worlds via Shadow Gates.

True, I didn't think about that possibility.
But now I'm thinking about, why the Darklords didn't develop advanced industrial technology before the building of Argazad and ironclads? Maybe such huge machines couldn't travel via Shadow Gates, but the creatures having built such things on Avaros or other Naar worlds could have crossed Shadow Gates?

We know that the Darklords destroyed races such as the winged Neboran but we know extremely little of them - did they have advanced technology that the Darklords stole?

That's possible. You'll find some new elements about Neboran in Stornlands 1 as their southern realm was near ancient Magador, and see they had advanced technology (but no ironclads :lol: )

 

[SnowShadow]

Ah, didn't explain well enough.

Don't get me wrong the Darklords are absolutely intent on conquering Magnamund. I meant to suggest that they were invading countries not only to control them but also to recover long lost items, which they need to conquer more countries and so on....

I'm not sure if it was Joe but I certainly remember reading somewhere that the Darklords were not powerful enough to conquer Magnamund alone, so does Naar just intend them to pave the way for more powerful champions? The Darklords themselves may not be keen on this and amass artefacts of great power (Doomstones, Runes, etc.) in a "We'll show Him" kind of way.

Geography.
It is harder to see any country further away from both The Darklands and The Doomlands of Naaros than Dessi, true we are told because this was where The Great Plague had the least effect, surely the Elder Magi have a stockload of dark artefacts only they can look after there though. (Lone Wolf leaves the Dagger of Vashna and Helshezag in Safe keeping at the Kai Monastery only for Rimoah to say "It's okay, I'll look after those for you...). In BK 20 the Elder Magi have the Tome of Darkness - who knows what else they may have, or be rumoured to have.
Okay so obvious question... Why do the Darklords never sail West then and invade Dessi & the Lastlands from the East? Surely with these lands gone it would be even easier to invade Sommerlund & Stornlands in a two pronged attack unless it is for the simple fact that they are intent on using the Stornlands both as a base AND to recover lost artefacts as I previously mentioned which is they only way they will stand a chance of conquering Sommerlund/Dessi. They could also be looking for non-evil aretfacts too, the Lorestone of Varetta was rumoured to make one invulnerable - there must be a ton of other magic items either lent or stolen to one Stornland 'Prince' or other. Mydnight's Hero and The Fall of Blood Mountain and Rune War hint at the terrible prospect of Naar's agents controlling Central Magnamund, where they are then free to invade where they wish.
One assumes the world is round so what is stopping the Darklords sailing West (don't say the Grey Havens!)?
Why don't Darklords forces use captured Skyships too?

The thing about Technology - I forgot the Academicians in Beyond the Nightmare Gate, they have a skyship they give Grey Star, technology shared on both sides of Shadow Gates. I do not think that skyships would go through the gates, or ironclads, etc. Just beings. Reminds me of a film the Philadelphia Experiment. Anyway the ideas would certainly pass through but the Darklords unable to replicate them knew what they were intending to do and just took centuries to develop the technology to do it: The metal required could be totally unlike what Magnamund has to offer and they are looking for alternatives. Isn't there that mine on the Plane of Darkness that has a metal just like that in Book 20? Imagine a situation similar to Leonardo Da Vinci's drawings, they've seen what is possible but just can't quite copy it.

But basically yes - they are intent on conquering Magnamund, I didn't mean to try and suggest otherwise.