D20 or own system?
- Thread starter zozotroll
- Start date
Hervé said:
Then look at other licensed RuneQuest products, such as Lankhmar. It's selling worse than RuneQuest is. :?
The point is though, that if the product line is already selling well, changing the system can't help it unless it's to a system that's more popular than the system the current line uses.
Come on, Flatscan, you know as well as I that Lankhmar has never been as popular as Conan and probably never will. Even back in the golden age of TSR, Lankhmar sold poorly compared to other AD&D products.
There has been countless comics, pastiches, movies, series, cartoons, toys, collectibles and video games about Conan, when Lankhmar only got two comics mini series, and almost nothing else. Fritz Lieber never had the popularity of REH.
No, I keep on saying that Conan is selling better simply because it's Conan, the world's most famous barbarian. In Fantasy, only Tolkien would reach such popularity. Certainly not Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Ask anyone in the street: everybody knows Conan. You'll find very little people knowing Lieber's heroes.
If we are to analyze numbers, then it should be done properly and we should compare what we can compare...
Cheers
There has been countless comics, pastiches, movies, series, cartoons, toys, collectibles and video games about Conan, when Lankhmar only got two comics mini series, and almost nothing else. Fritz Lieber never had the popularity of REH.
No, I keep on saying that Conan is selling better simply because it's Conan, the world's most famous barbarian. In Fantasy, only Tolkien would reach such popularity. Certainly not Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Ask anyone in the street: everybody knows Conan. You'll find very little people knowing Lieber's heroes.
If we are to analyze numbers, then it should be done properly and we should compare what we can compare...
Cheers
Well, what other figures can we compare?
I've posted a call on RPG.net asking who actually plays MRQ. So far, nothing but crickets. Just because there's three or four vocal posters on this forum that would rather have it does not a market make. We've been through this song and dance before. You're already buying the Conan books now. If anything, Mongoose will lose more customers by switching then it could possibly gain from an unpopular system version of Conan.
I've posted a call on RPG.net asking who actually plays MRQ. So far, nothing but crickets. Just because there's three or four vocal posters on this forum that would rather have it does not a market make. We've been through this song and dance before. You're already buying the Conan books now. If anything, Mongoose will lose more customers by switching then it could possibly gain from an unpopular system version of Conan.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
I suppose we can argue till the end of time, but without numbers (meaning: correct numbers) it's all wild speculation. Until then, everyone can imagine what he wants/desires most. Surely there's no harm in that 
Thing is, the MRQ book was already written, by the same guy that wrote the D20 version. But, the licence only covers one game, and D20 was already out. So we are unlikely to see MRQ Conan, but aperrently the
goose was happy to have two systems for the same game..
As to where innheck did I hear that? Right here on the
gooses own boards.
I guess it comes down to how bad do you want to play a given setting. I will play D20 Conan. I will not play Gurps Conan. And after buying all of D@ Conan, I would also buy it all over again in MRQ.
As for continueing support, MRQ can use stuff from RQ1. Try that with ADD, or even 3.5 to 4e.
goose was happy to have two systems for the same game..
As to where innheck did I hear that? Right here on the
gooses own boards.
I guess it comes down to how bad do you want to play a given setting. I will play D20 Conan. I will not play Gurps Conan. And after buying all of D@ Conan, I would also buy it all over again in MRQ.
As for continueing support, MRQ can use stuff from RQ1. Try that with ADD, or even 3.5 to 4e.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
Do you expect Mongoose telling you "look guys, in 10 months we are releasing a new game, so we stop selling d20 books now", losing 10 months of revenue? And to people who quite possibly would not buy a new version of Conan in any case? I do not think it likely (and WotC is an example), but everything is possible I suppose.tneva82 said:
rabindranath72 said:
They have had habit of stopping production of new titles well before new edition comes up if that edition is complete rework of system before. Why would they stop that practice and ensure as many customers gets pissed off as they possibly can piss off?
Dunno. Seems counter productive to alter their method of halting production of new material before new completely different game comes when not doing that is only going to piss off huge amount of their customers when it's the happy current customers whom they depend on being profitable company in a first place! They can't AFFORD to piss them off since they can't afford massive PR campaigns required to get completely new customer base without help of existing satisfied customers(especially as they would likely be promoting people NOT to buy Mongoose's products).
Dunno. I assume Mongoose is sensible enough that if they WOULD do such a complete rehaul of one of their rules they would do again what they have done before and not produce new books for it which are soon invalidated in a first place leaving only few months of useful time for them.
YMMV of course.
Hervé said:
And trying to attract new gamers to non-supported games is bloody impossible. I know I'm sitting top of HUNDREDS of euro's worth of gaming material made by Mongoose and other companies which are useless after their lines were dropped of support. Nobody is interested in playing dead games. And now with B5 lisence running out both Babylon 5 RPG and ACTA(as well as traveller B5 though atleast I can salvage from there stuff for Traveller) will suffer same fate.
So I very much doubt Mongoose is going to pull nasty stunt like that releasing new titles moments before killing support of that rulesystem when they have history of not doing that. Unlike WOTC they can't afford to piss off their customers by poor decisions like that and they know it.
Why you think they have avoided doing that in the past? Why you think they have went full stop of new releases in the past well before previous rules gets invalidated by the new version? I doubt you can offer sensible alternative reason than wish to avoid pissing off their customers big time by giving them new books only to invalidate them within few months.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
tneva82 said:
Emphasis mine. That's not a fair nor correct statement. I know lots, LOTS of people who continue playing their preferred games despite the direction the market takes. I am one of those people, as well as my usual group who could not care less what is currently produced (actually they do not know what is on the market; as GM I am the only buyer of products). The so-called "old school" community is made of players who play "old" games (just do a search on the internet and you will see how wide is this phenomenon).
I suppose you have been unlucky in meeting the kind of players who only plays the latest games.
warzen said:
How you plan to use the books if your gaming group splits and you can't get any new players drawn in? Books are useless if you don't have anybody to play with. Last I checked RPG's aren't exactly suitable for solo-playing. With wargames that's somewhat doable but RPG's just don't work as solo so if you have nobody to play with then the books are useless shelf space eaters you might just as well sell if you can find someone silly enough to buy them.
tneva82 said:
Depends on the new players - our groups play old and new games (More the latter than the former) but usually its the GM who has the relevant books - its actually quite rare for the players to have to buy anything at all. It also helps against the odd player who buys more stuff than the GM and constantly throws the latest broken class into the mix.
take Stormbringer - I have most editions beginning at the GW hardback (3 copies of that as its my fav) and up to and including the MGP one. When I run it I use the GW version as a base and use bits out of the later editions / BRP - like the Aligence system.
I find that we change systems and GMs quite often so its the GM and their worlds that draw people in - not the system, which to my mind is secondary anyway.
Conan - I only use the D20 books as source material - have quite a few of them - yes I Ignore the "class" books but the rest I have found useful and good reads. If and When Conan turns up as a RQ system - I will give it a look and see if it interests me.
Not sure about this "dead game" thing - I have always found most rpgers (young and old, new and veteran) willing to try games out - be they supported or not. It might be different if you feel you need to be constantly bombarded by supplements to tell you what to do. On the other hand if you want to get rid of your old books cheap - I do collect rpgs so may be interested :wink:
All my players have bought a copy of the 2e book. Some have gone on to buy other supplements such as the Player's Guide, Warrior's Companion, etc. Yes, we could keep playing if the line were to stop being printed tomorrow. But again, this is all idle speculation. There's no evidence anywhere that Mongoose would switch systems. There's less of a reason for them to do so. Runequest may have been popular at some point in one of the past editions. But these days, it doesn't seem to be on anybody's radar (at least not in Austin or RPG.net). Do any of you guys play Runequest? I don't have Mongoose's sales numbers, but it would be a huge gamble to switch a successful brand that's selling well as is now to a system who's reviews are a mixed bag and most people don't seem to play in great numbers.
RQ has always been a lot like Jethro Tull. Never a huge following, but still a very cmommited one. So while you cant expect great sales for a new product, you can expect some.
I play dead games all the time.I know of two ADD groups that over half the members where not even born when ADD first came out. But somebody introduced them. My experience across 3 continents and 32 years playing is that GM tend to buy lots of books, while players may buy the player hand book only, and often not even that.
As for the low sales of lankhmar, go to any new book store you care to, and see how many Lieber books they have vs how many REH books. I just did this last weekend, and found new print REH books in every one I checked, and not one Lieber book at all. I am not even sure any are in print.
I dont see conan RPG as a great system, but Conan the license as a great buissness move. And I certainly appreciate that while mongoose does great games, they also make good money decisions. Over the years I have seen way to many great games go away because they where poorly ran companys. I am certain that if the Goose published a MRQ version of Conan, it would be because they think it would sell. And have some market research to back that up.
I play dead games all the time.I know of two ADD groups that over half the members where not even born when ADD first came out. But somebody introduced them. My experience across 3 continents and 32 years playing is that GM tend to buy lots of books, while players may buy the player hand book only, and often not even that.
As for the low sales of lankhmar, go to any new book store you care to, and see how many Lieber books they have vs how many REH books. I just did this last weekend, and found new print REH books in every one I checked, and not one Lieber book at all. I am not even sure any are in print.
I dont see conan RPG as a great system, but Conan the license as a great buissness move. And I certainly appreciate that while mongoose does great games, they also make good money decisions. Over the years I have seen way to many great games go away because they where poorly ran companys. I am certain that if the Goose published a MRQ version of Conan, it would be because they think it would sell. And have some market research to back that up.
