Cybernetics (Stat Enhancement)

Marachai

Mongoose
I've recently began a Twilight Sector campaign with my group and one of my players opted to use the Cybernetics book to create his character. While generating an Agent he received a +2 Enhanced Strength. Now I am assuming that the +2 is literally added to his Strength Score (which was a 6) .. So he now has an 8, and it is not a Strength DM ?

I ask because one of my other characters went a Mutant and took the Notable Characteristic (Dexterity) twice which bestows a +2 DM when using Dexterity ... And his Dexterity was 7.

I realise Twilight Sector is not a Mongoose product, so handles things differently, which is fine, it just made me wonder if the cybernetics book meant direct stat changes or a DM when using that Stat.

Curious to how the rest of you use it.

Mara.
 
Book 8 tends to refer to enhancement to the stat, some of the arms say Strength Characteristic enhancement. I have always taken this to be dirsctly adding to the stat in the same whay that things like battledress adds to the stat.

So Str 6 becomes Str 8 if you have +2 from cyber arms. In this way you improve damage taking since the arms are a bit tougher and you can carry that bit more.

Using the cyber bonus to increase the mod is very powerful. Str 6 is +0, if the cyber arms made that a mod of +2 that is the same as increasing the Str to 12-14. that is one heck of an improvement.
 
I agree that it seems the intent is to directly apply it to the Stat. I understand why they have it this way, but it seems to me if your an average guy with say 6 Strength, then after paying two million credits (Assuming purchasing rather than through a cyber career) for +2 enhanced Strength arms, the only benefit being I can take two more points of damage seems weak. All that TL14 technology in your body and you still don't earn a +1 to Strength related tasks.

It is to me a weird situation.

I do appreciate that handled the other way though could and would get out of hand with someone with good stats. The total modifier would be crazy high.

I just think as it stands if your more average, that enhancements just aren't worth the credits.

Mara.
 
Going by the TMB (don't have the Cybernetics book yet), the augment adds directly to the characteristic, not the modifier.
 
And if that's not to your liking, change the rules so it applies directly to the DM.

Clearly, somebody had not done their homework - imagine a Str 4 character getting a +2 Str boost augment, and ending up with Str 6(+0) - they've got only as much strength as a normal human, and it cost them, what was the figure, MCr 2? Sucks. Should've bought a multigym for Cr. 1,000 and saved the money.

Now imagine someone with a DM mod who turns it on and, despite their Str of 4, they gain a Str DM of +2. Isn't that more like it?
 
As you say.

If you are adding synthetic's ti enhance your existing human strength, say cloned or synthetic muscle fibre then it would add to your existing Str becasue it is still your arms.

A cyber arm which is completely mechanical will not have your strength, its purely mechanical. Each hand/arm should have a Str rating for itself which can be factored together.

For example. Cyber arm and hand had Str (tech) for gripping and punching but could not lift more than your body strength. If you had a cyber spine/reinforced skeleton and cyber legs then you would have a fully functioning Str of (tech). So tech 12 has a max of str 12.

Makes your cyborgs fairly scary when they can bench press you and your battledress. Plus the cyber stuff should add to End as well to reflect the fact that all that plastic and metal feels no pain and is a lot tougher than the meat it replaced.
 
Cyberlegs are a prime example. They don't get cramp due to lactic acid buildup through anaerobic metabolism, so mechanical cyberlegs could carry you through a marathon run and you wouldn't feel winded or come anywhere near The Wall. A character with cyberlegs could happily walk across a continent before worrying about things like the internal battery lifespan: and if his legs carried internal dynamos, generating charge through movement, the character would not even have to worry about that.

Also, climbing: the character could hang on to a rock by a cyberarm and never worry about fatigue.

One small drawback: unprotected cyberlimbs + water = character unable to move his limbs because they have shorted out = character plunging straight to the bottom, a prisoner of his own dead weight mechanical limbs.
 
And don't forget that replacing limbs doesn't automatically mean replacement of what the limb was attached to. Any normal bone/tendons/muscle could suffer damage from activity that the cyber limb can handle just fine.

Example: Jumping down 100 feet using cyber legs could result in pelvic and spinal damage.
 
Plus the long-term damage to your system: the loss of the bone marrow in the natural bones, and the blood cells generated by same, and the functions the bone marrow performs in the lymphatic system.

Somehow, the authors of cyberpunk novels never really think this bit through.
 
As someone who watched the first-run airings of The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, the seven million dollar man (bad guy), the bionic dog (SMDM spin off attempt), and the bionic dog (SMDW spin off attempt) AND read the original novel CYBORG several time, I have to agree that in general the writers of fiction featuring cybernetic enhancment/replacements tend to not to really consider the engineering problems inherent to making these changes/additions to a person.

Replace a persons arm with a cybernetic one, and how do you handle the diference in weight between the replacement and the original flesh&blood arm? The greater weight of the cybernetic arm is going to do a fine job of pulling the person over to that side making it hard for them to stand up straight. Muscles and bones don't strengthen overnight to help compensate for this.

Also, as anyone who has had pins or replacement knee caps put in them, these pieces of plastic and metal get cold easier than the bones and muscles they are placed in/attached too. My last few years in the Boy Scouts, my scout master was a Vietnam Vet who was injured in combat lost both his knee caps, a few ribs (and maybe a few other things). Ribs and Knees were plastic, and he had a few metal pins in him. Any cool weather (let alone cold) put him in a lot of pain. Meds could only manage them so well and wearing more clothes/getting closer to a good fire only went so far.

Also, how far do you go when replacing an arm or a leg with a cybernetic one? For a leg, do you replace the entire upper leg bone (Femur) including the head? How do you compensate for the extra weight pulling down on those ligaments?

But yes, no one ever said any of this was "hard" science fiction, Just fiction under the veneer of being "science based"
 
alex_greene said:
Clearly, somebody had not done their homework - imagine a Str 4 character getting a +2 Str boost augment, and ending up with Str 6(+0)

No, just like real life. The surgery and expense isn't worth it for every patients body...
 
I haven't got Cybernetics yet, so I had to think about the system I'd have developed. What use is a +2 stat boost to a natural stat of 6, when the DM is the only measure that is applied against the dice in a skill check? And what is the point of having, say, a +1 stat boost if your natural stat DM is already -2?

Here's the system.

If your natural stat DM is -3, -2, -1 or +0: the stat boost combat implant raises the stat DM to +1, +2 or +3, or whatever the rated DM is.

If your natural stat DM is already +1 or higher: the stat boost combat implant raises the stat DM by +1, +2 or +3, or whatever the rated DM is.

The maximum stat DM raise is double the racial maximum stat DM.

So, for example, someone whose natural Dex is 5 (DM -1) gets a +2 booster implant. When it is active, his enhanced Dex DM is at +2.

Someone else, whose natural Dex is 9 (DM +1) and who gets the same rated +2 booster implant, raises his Dex DM to +3.

The booster does this by raising the stats themselves (not the DMs) in a non-linear manner. It raises the effective stat points of the boosted characteristic such that, when the implant is active, the stat is at the minimum level at which the rated stat DM occurs.

What does this mean? If your natural stat is 8 or less, a +1 booster effectively gives you an instant stat of 9. A +2 booster would give you an effective stat of 12; a +3 booster would give you an effective enhanced stat of 15, and so on.

If your natural stat is already 9 or higher, same kind of deal. Someone whose natural Int is 9, 10 or 11 gains an enhanced Int of 12 with a +1 booster, 15 with a +2 booster, and 18 with a +3 booster.

If there's a contested skill check, and the Effect and skill are the same for both contestants, the contest can be decided by the Referee checking the stat levels of the contenders. A natural Int of 14 will trump an enhanced Int of 12 any day in a tie, because the Int can increase naturally - the boosted Int will always remain 12 and can never increase, unless the cyborg character can somehow raise his natural Int to the next DM threshold, potentially a +3 increase to the natural stat.

And a natural Dex of 12 will also prevail over an enhanced Dex of 12, for the reason that the natural Dex will be more organic and fluid than the programmed Dex of the combat implant.
 
alex_greene said:
I haven't got Cybernetics yet, so I had to think about the system I'd have developed. What use is a +2 stat boost to a natural stat of 6, when the DM is the only measure that is applied against the dice in a skill check? And what is the point of having, say, a +1 stat boost if your natural stat DM is already -2?

Here's the system.

If your natural stat DM is -3, -2, -1 or +0: the stat boost combat implant raises the stat DM to +1, +2 or +3, or whatever the rated DM is.

If your natural stat DM is already +1 or higher: the stat boost combat implant raises the stat DM by +1, +2 or +3, or whatever the rated DM is.

The maximum stat DM raise is double the racial maximum stat DM...
I was thinking about pretty much this very same system earlier today while having lunch at a Taco Bell. I haven't got it written it up but the same idea *wink*
 
One option would be to have 'augmentation' and 'replacement' cybernetics. Augments are the ones from the core rulebook - they build on what you already have. A cyberarm augment would increase your Strength score by a few points by implanting artificial bones, boosting key muscle groups, draining lactic acid faster and so on.

A more expensive replacement arm chops off your flesh-and-blood arm and replaces it with a metal-and-plastic machine arm. That just sets your Strength score (when using that arm) to 10 or whatever.
 
GamerDude said:
As someone who watched the first-run airings of The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, the seven million dollar man (bad guy), the bionic dog (SMDM spin off attempt), and the bionic dog (SMDW spin off attempt)
Checking for temporal anomalies ...
 
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