Cult Runespells and Cult Runes

[Cleombrotus]

As an addendum, when combined with the spells available to associate cults, it presumably creates a massive selection of available rune magic and only a few spells denied.
This is closer to the way the system/world used to be, and makes a kind of complicated sense to me.

 

[Deleriad]

But whilst I can see the value of your approach, I personally would rather adopt a different reading of what's in print (drawing implications from what's written) rather than re-write stuff.

Anyone can learn and cast Runespells by virtue of integrating the rune associated with that spell.
Theists can learn and cast Runespells by virtue of being in a cult that teaches them.

That's kind of what I hoped to do originally. The problem, as you say, is the mismatch between the spells available to a cult and the spells available from the cult's runes. E.g. If you become an initiate an Orlanth presumably this lets you cast any spell that Orlanth has. Thus to cast Bladesharp you would have to learn Runecasting (Metal) and then learn Bladesharp. However it seems highly unlikely that the cult would teach runecasting (metal) so you would have to go elsewhere for it.

It's possible to handwave all this but I ended up using a minimal fix of Runecasting (deity) that lets you cast all and only the rune magic available to that deity. It seems to make sense in a Gloranthan context because the deity acts as a middleman between you and the various runic nodes it has access to, hence the rather odd set of spells that are sometimes available. It does seem to still end up magic poorer than RQ2 and 3 but that's maybe no bad thing. When every NPC has their INT full of battle magic it is a bear to GM.

The expanded runes/spells table is a separate activity to be used for magic cast directly through an integrated rune rather than through a deity.

 

[Cleombrotus]

The problem, as you say, is the mismatch between the spells available to a cult and the spells available from the cult's runes

What I'm saying is that I would ignore the mismatch and see the two as seperate means of acquiring a spell. So a cult that teaches Bladesharp in its list does so through cult knowledge. It would be cast using the Specific Theology skill. A cult could also access all spells that are associated with their cult runes, casting using Spec. Theology. A character could also learn spells associated with any runes that were integrated, so extra spells could be considered as a bonus of rune integration, rather than the primary means to access rune magic. These would use Runecasting as the skill. As I said, it depends upon what a spell actually is - an entity ("we have the power of the Bladesharp spell") or an effect ("we have a spell that makes our blades sharp").

 

[Deleriad]

The problem, as you say, is the mismatch between the spells available to a cult and the spells available from the cult's runes

What I'm saying is that I would ignore the mismatch and see the two as seperate means of acquiring a spell. So a cult that teaches Bladesharp in its list does so through cult knowledge. It would be cast using the Specific Theology skill. A cult could also access all spells that are associated with their cult runes, casting using Spec. Theology.

From a strictly gamist perspective I wouldn't go quite that far because it makes the lore spec. theology skill too powerful. As it allows in most cases the casting of divine magic plus the equivalent of two additional runecasting skills (the cult's runes) and casting whatever rune magic a cult has otherwise available.

That's why I use runecasting (deity) to allow the casting of cult rune magic but only cult rune magic.

From a cosmological background, I think of runecasting (deity) as the first level of interaction with a deity and is the first practical form of magic that a lay member learns. Once initiated, the member then can learn to cast divine magic through lore (deity) as a greater secret.

Basically: your system uses just one skill for rune and divine and allows access to a wider range of rune. My system uses two skills and has a narrower selection of rune spells available. I don't think any approach is strictly better than the other. Mine would tend to lead to lower prevalence of rune magic than yours and makes mastering it more demanding and that suits my purposes.

 

[Cleombrotus]

It all comes down to YGWV. I think that the strength of the RQ system is that you don't have to worry about players becoming too powerful. If the skill works one way for pc's it works one way for npc's. In Glorantha Theists should be very powerful in relation to the Generic rules because of the mythological nature of the world. A good blow from a sword is going to spoil a priest's day same as anyone else's.

What has been most frustrating for me is that with RQ2, and RQ3 towards the end, the world was in part defined by the statistics of npc's which were well thought out and carefully defined.

We understood what a powerful individual would look like, statistically, and everything in between, from the tavern crew in Fangs to the Rune Lord-Priests in Runemasters. This helped to define the world, and gave you an idea how powerful your character was. It seems to me that many of those new to RQ and new to Glorantha are left in limbo with regards to this.

Although I understand that Loz has begun to do this in Dara Happa Stirs (which I don't have) helping to create the world and exemplify the rules through NPC's, it has been something that RQM has been badly missing.

So many of these rules ambiguities and contradictions could have been sorted by giving us a playtested party of Orlanthi fanatics or something. Anyone with the usual intelligence of the roleplaying community would be able to extrapolate the intention of the rules through the stats.

So, there you go designers. Impose your version of Glorantha upon the MRQ rules system via the stats of NPC's. I dare you. Then we can dance to the same tune and move forward.

 

[gran_orco]

Far from it. I've been working with Jeff Kyer on the Cults I and II books and although I've had to put this project on hold for a variety of reasons, there will be a fix produced in due course. However, there is a great deal of work to be done, and, as others have pointed out, it needs to be done right. So please don't mistake silence for a lack of effort. But it will take time...

Loz

This is a message written on may 2008. How much time must we wait? Come on, come on. I am anxious and with illusion of seeing the result!

 

[Sinisalo]

I collated all the runes associated with all the gods in the Orlanth and Ernalda pantheon and worked out you could gain access to "charms" for about half the runes and thus access to about half the rune spells. That's if you are going down the charms route. If you were going down that route it would seem to me that if you needed an earth rune you'd go to the Ernalda priestess who would tatoo you an earth charm, thus strengthening the community and preventing you selling it.

 

[Voriof]

I collated all the runes associated with all the gods in the Orlanth and Ernalda pantheon and worked out you could gain access to "charms" for about half the runes and thus access to about half the rune spells. That's if you are going down the charms route. If you were going down that route it would seem to me that if you needed an earth rune you'd go to the Ernalda priestess who would tatoo you an earth charm, thus strengthening the community and preventing you selling it.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I had envisioned... the rune spell choices were more determined by profession rather than the somewhat odd runic associations many of them had. As far as I am concerned, cults are very much a social construct and fulfill necessary roles in supporting the community. You do a job, you get magic to support that lifestyle.

Jeff