CSC Power Generators

[MasterGwydion]

In the CSC, why are there no actual stats for how much Power the power generation equipment produces? pg 116-119

 

[Condottiere]

Can of worms.

You know approximately how much power your electric toothbrush requires.

You can extrapolate that to Fusion Gun, Man Portable, Fourteen.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Can of worms.

You know approximately how much power your electric toothbrush requires.

You can extrapolate that to Fusion Gun, Man Portable, Fourteen.

Or, in the case of the Ancients, turn your electric toothbrush into a Fusion Gun, Man Portable, Fourteen.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Can of worms.

You know approximately how much power your electric toothbrush requires.

You can extrapolate that to Fusion Gun, Man Portable, Fourteen.

It says it can power itself, plus 4 additional modules, but We have no idea how much power that is. What if one of those modules is a Biosphere to provide life support and food? That requires 1 Power/ton. A module is 5 tons. It is no more of a can of worms than saying a TL-15 Fusion plant puts out 15 Power/ton.

 

[Condottiere]

In a different franchise, I would have mentioned light sabre.

Energy requirements tend to be consistent across the board, except in cases of diminishing returns, and economy of scale.

Generally speaking, fusion reactors should produce more than sufficient for most requirements, but micromanaging the energy budget necessitates knowing exactly how much each piece of equipment needs as input, and in the case of an air/raft technical, how much the gravitational motor needs, onboard electronics, and let's say, the gatling laser you have mounted on the back.

 

[Geir]

Can of Worms, like @Condottiere says (normally, his brain-altering chemical enhancements appear to be different from mine, but in this case, I completely understand and agree). In the land of Spaces and Slots, kilowatts have no home.

 

[MasterGwydion]

In a different franchise, I would have mentioned light sabre.

Energy requirements tend to be consistent across the board, except in cases of diminishing returns, and economy of scale.

Generally speaking, fusion reactors should produce more than sufficient for most requirements, but micromanaging the energy budget necessitates knowing exactly how much each piece of equipment needs as input, and in the case of an air/raft technical, how much the gravitational motor needs, onboard electronics, and let's say, the gatling laser you have mounted on the back.

0.1 Power per ton. Same as any other building that does not require artificial gravity. You don't need to know the exact power requirements of everything. That is what the "Basic Systems" Power Requirements are for. In ships, that = 0.2 x total tonnage. In structures it = 0.1 x total tonnage. You just need to know the power output of the generator. I can infer that a Large Portable Power System puts out 5 Power since a Large Portable Power System is enough to power an Advanced Base of 5 modules with Life Support, Temperature controls and perhaps Artificial Gravity. A Medium Portable Power System is sufficient for the same base, but without Life Support, Temperature Controls and Artificial Gravity, would put out 2.5 Power.

So, a Medium Portable Fusion Generator would be about 0.17 tons or 0.67 Vehicle Spaces or 29cl or 43 Slots
A Large Portable Fusion Generator would be about 0.34 tons or 1.34 Vehicle Spaces or 58cl or 86 Slots.

Oh look! Now I can build a power droid like Gonky from The Bad Batch. Although, I'd love to be able to use a Small Portable Fusion Generator for that. Very handy for a salvage crew to have to supply power to a derelict vessel. Sadly, given that I cannot infer the sizes of the other Portable Fusion Generators from the available information. I don't think I should have to though. One of the glorious things about Traveller is that every book is compatible with every other book. (Or at least that seems to be the direction that Mongoose is heading) So, why not give Us the information that We need to be able to get more use out of the components that Mongoose has given Us?

 

[Condottiere]

'Cos, inevitably, it will be wrong.

 

[MasterGwydion]

'Cos, inevitably, it will be wrong.

Wrong how? Are the stats for the Power Plants in ships wrong too?

 

[Condottiere]

Because we're making up numbers.

At some point, discrepancies will creep in.

And Mongoose isn't renowned for corrections.

Ship designs tend to be at the macro scale, so there's leeway.

Though, try to get exact energy requirements for ship components, in (mega)watts, rather than power points.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Because we're making up numbers.

Everything is a made-up number in an RPG

At some point, discrepancies will creep in.

What discrepancies have crept in ship's Power Plants?

And Mongoose isn't renowned for corrections.

The Updates would seem to disagree. Mongoose is better at corrections than any other company I am aware of.

Ship designs tend to be at the macro scale, so there's leeway.

How is adding a hot tub macro-scale? Or Holographic Windows from the CSC? I wouldn't say that they are macro-scale, unless you are referring to the "blanket 1 power per 5 tons of hull" for basic systems? Structures have the same thing, but it is 1 power per 10 tons of structure.

Though, try to get exact energy requirements for ship components, in (mega)watts, rather than power points.

Why would you try to convert to MW? What uses MW?

 

[agentwigggles]

Can of worms. Or Chris Griffin likes to say, 'hydra problem'.
Electrical generation and electrical consumption isnt as simple as 'output wattage and input wattage'.
The rpg isnt physic engine, as soon as you place hard numbers, the system we will a have prepetual motion machines. And civil and electrical engineers arent writing the rules. To avoid having mechanics that by RAW voilate thermodyamnics we would need to account in some fashion for load balancing, spin up time, loss over distance, step up transformers, step down transformers, ac transmission, dc transmission. And for the power generators we need to then now account for fuel consumption and providing that fuel. And we need some sorta range band for power put and fuel consumption. Oh, and its fusion, so we cant forget about liquid oxygen or helium to keep it properly cold.
Then we get to raise all this to power of (at least) 15? to account for differences in TL 4-19 or 5-20ish.

Now since we're getting this particular, the equipment to manage electrical infrastructure is very limited in the csc and other splats. So lets get some cherry bucket trucks, and more add on for armor for the fire armor to make it handle electrcity better. Industrial sized hand tools and power tools. Then we'll need entries for various different TL for these equipments.
This isnt even touching on that most power machines can operate while they're under powered, and quite a lot of computerized equipment does too.
So how do we account for a say a 5 foot metal lathe that is belt driven, vs converting it to a TL5 dc brush motor. How much more productivity does it now give?
And why just electrical power? No human power cranes? Water wheel wood saws? Wind powered mills? Animal power power hammers? We can convert all of its outputs to watts, or newtons or foot-pounds or british thrermal units.
Maddness.
Maddness.
Maddness.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm not against it being tried, I'm just predicting that there will be a lot of discrepancies, and those won't be corrected.

It might even turn out to be highly entertaining.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Can of worms. Or Chris Griffin likes to say, 'hydra problem'.
Electrical generation and electrical consumption isnt as simple as 'output wattage and input wattage'.
The rpg isnt physic engine, as soon as you place hard numbers, the system we will a have prepetual motion machines. And civil and electrical engineers arent writing the rules. To avoid having mechanics that by RAW voilate thermodyamnics we would need to account in some fashion for load balancing, spin up time, loss over distance, step up transformers, step down transformers, ac transmission, dc transmission. And for the power generators we need to then now account for fuel consumption and providing that fuel. And we need some sorta range band for power put and fuel consumption. Oh, and its fusion, so we cant forget about liquid oxygen or helium to keep it properly cold.
Then we get to raise all this to power of (at least) 15? to account for differences in TL 4-19 or 5-20ish.

Now since we're getting this particular, the equipment to manage electrical infrastructure is very limited in the csc and other splats. So lets get some cherry bucket trucks, and more add on for armor for the fire armor to make it handle electrcity better. Industrial sized hand tools and power tools. Then we'll need entries for various different TL for these equipments.
This isnt even touching on that most power machines can operate while they're under powered, and quite a lot of computerized equipment does too.
So how do we account for a say a 5 foot metal lathe that is belt driven, vs converting it to a TL5 dc brush motor. How much more productivity does it now give?
Maddness.
Maddness.
Maddness.

Really? All of this because I asked the power output of a generator. Seriously guys? I show you how it is not a can of worms and you all say, "Ahhhhh!!!! Can of worms!!!!!" Seriously? Basic System power on a ship is what? A flat rate based on size of the ship. Same as for structures. Every power source for a ship has a power output rating. That is not a can of worms. That is simple. Y'all are being some serious drama queens.

It is not a can of worms to ask how much power a power source puts out? It is not a can of worms to ask the writers to make the systems that they write function together. Mongoose is working on this already with HG, RH, VH, and the CSC. So, what's with the hate guys?

 

[Condottiere]

As regards to wattage, mega or otherwise, it would be a yardstick we're all familiar with.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I'm not against it being tried, I'm just predicting that there will be a lot of discrepancies, and those won't be corrected.

It might even turn out to be highly entertaining.

How is it a f*cking discrepancy? Extra-small output is A. Small output is B. Medium output is C. Large output is D. Extra-large output is E.

See? Simple. That is all I was asking.

 

[MasterGwydion]

As regards to wattage, mega or otherwise, it would be a yardstick we're all familiar with.

WGAF? Are you not familiar with power points from a ship's power plant? That is a lame excuse. You want the reason? Here.-----> If you don't use a metric like watts, then no one can say it is wrong, because power points, unlike watts, don't really exist. They are a generalization for game purposes. A power point is a power point is a power point.

 

[agentwigggles]

We dont know the electrical consumption and output of spaceships.
The generall community thought is thats its in the gigawatt range at least. We dont even know if DEWs have capictors or if it takes direct feed from power plant.
The limit for the reactors in the CSC is very likely there, to say that one reactor doesnt provide infinite power for everything, over everywhere.
It power four modules. Thats fine. Yea. It might be near its max output, it might underutilized thats also fine. Might even be a bespoke generation for those 4 modules.
Here a thing that even more gnarly. The bio reactor cybernetic implant can recharge a laser rifle.
We dont really worry that the heat generation would melt the sophont.

 

[Condottiere]

As an example, I'm screwing around with pods, which is a very murky area to involve oneself in.

Pods are canonical, exactly how they function and relate to ship design is guesswork.

Which I take great care in pointing out.

I'm speculating that our doubts and comments are perceived by you as a personal attack on you, or your ideas, which I can assure you it's not.

And as I informed someone a while back, I don't take this very seriously.

 

[Arkathan]

That is the survival section of the CSC. These are portable units (or "portable" units).
For ship or pirate base purposes, they effectively produce zero power.
Page 116, Sizing, describes the relative power output for temporary (or semi-permanent) camp use and what each size is best suited for.
PoD has rules for powering a larger, more permanent base.