Critical Hits with multiple locations/systems

[mavikfelna]

Ok, this is the first of two posts based on events that happened in last night's game.

We responded to a distress call that turned out to be pirates sending a false signal. They attacked, did almost nothing and then got hit hard by us. 2nd round, we crippled their reactor with a massive crit, but in return they got a cargo critical hit. We rolled a 5 and disabled their reactor, they rolled a 6 and destroyed all our cargo, which included a nearly half a megacredit of spec trade we purchased with a loan. But, we have 2 cargo bays, the standard bay and a fuel/cargo container we were using as cargo. The GM declared ALL cargo was destroyed, regardless of where it was. We argued it should have only destroyed one or the other bay, like if the opponent had had a backup maneuver driver and if we had critted the maneuver drive it would have killed the main drive but not the backup. He said no go so we moved on, but I wanted to know if there was anything that clarified this sort of situation? It's especially galling because it was a measly dual beam laser turret that did the damage.

Note, we're a 200 ton Survey Yacht (an Animal class Safari ship refitted for system survey work) that's slumming as a free trader as we make our way out to our survey field. We had 14 passengers and 35 tons of cargo aboard in the Lunion system. Piracy was not on our minds when responding to the distress call cause the system was swarming with naval ships with the visit of the Duchess of Mora.

 

[rinku]

By Fuel/Cargo do you mean the hidden compartment thing?

If so, I'd lump that in with fuel hits. But yeah, it is his call.

 

[mavikfelna]

By Fuel/Cargo do you mean the hidden compartment thing?

If so, I'd lump that in with fuel hits. But yeah, it is his call.

No, it's a Fuel/Cargo container. High Guard pg 49. It was being used for cargo only at the time.

 

[Arkathan]

In my game, if it is separated by a bulkhead, it is a different bay and we roll randomly for what cargo is destroyed, like different weapons getting hit.
Fuel is all connected somewhere, so any fuel that can be pumped into the Jump Drive is affected by a crit (so the fuel portion of a fuel/cargo bay is Fuel)... which means that fuel bladder taking up half the cargo bay is fair game on a cargo hit.

 

[boggo2300]

It's harsh, and I would have rolled randomly, with a bias towards the container but only one bay would have been destroyed. but Ref's rules

 

[Arkathan]

Modified 18 to the reactor and a 19 to the cargo. Impressive.

 

[mavikfelna]

Modified 18 to the reactor and a 19 to the cargo. Impressive.

Actually, I just learned we did the crits wrong. The GM was rolling the severity on a D6. Our hit was at least a 15, as our gunner was on fire and that was the lowest he rolled out of all of our shots, highest was a 19 on his first round shot. The enemy never got higher than a 13 cause their gunner sucked, their computer was gone and I had good piloting rolls and put all our thrust into evasion. Though I don't know that we were doing that right either. We're kind of learning MgT2e spaceship combat as we go here.

 

[Arkathan]

Actually, I just learned we did the crits wrong. ...

See if you can get your cargo back!

 

[mavikfelna]

See if you can get your cargo back!

Probably not, but I did post the info I found in our discord so there's still hope. The pirates also have big time lawyers working to get them off the hook so I think the GM is unhappy we were working on such a big score and this is his chance to force us back into the bottle as it were.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Actually, I just learned we did the crits wrong. The GM was rolling the severity on a D6. Our hit was at least a 15, as our gunner was on fire and that was the lowest he rolled out of all of our shots, highest was a 19 on his first round shot. The enemy never got higher than a 13 cause their gunner sucked, their computer was gone and I had good piloting rolls and put all our thrust into evasion. Though I don't know that we were doing that right either. We're kind of learning MgT2e spaceship combat as we go here.

If you did the effect wrong, then the outcome is wrong. I'd push that and see what can be done as the results were flawed.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Probably not, but I did post the info I found in our discord so there's still hope. The pirates also have big time lawyers working to get them off the hook so I think the GM is unhappy we were working on such a big score and this is his chance to force us back into the bottle as it were.

Booo!

 

[boggo2300]

There are much easier, and less annoying to the players ways of removing cash from Travellers...

 

[rinku]

No, it's a Fuel/Cargo container. High Guard pg 49. It was being used for cargo only at the time.

In that case his ruling is perfectly reasonable. If it has cargo in it, it's subject to cargo critical hits. If it has fuel in it, it's subject to fuel critical hits.

Most ships have more than one area with fuel in them, and some have more than one cargo area. This is just a variation of that - if you want special protection, use Armoured Bulkheads. If there was a section of cargo (Fuel/Cargo or regular) that was protected by that, I think you would have a case to argue, although even those won't help if the critical hit severity is high enough (severity 5 is reduced to severity 4, which destroys all cargo anyway...).

 

[Terry Mixon]

In that case his ruling is perfectly reasonable. If it has cargo in it, it's subject to cargo critical hits. If it has fuel in it, it's subject to fuel critical hits.

Most ships have more than one area with fuel in them, and some have more than one cargo area. This is just a variation of that - if you want special protection, use Armoured Bulkheads. If there was a section of cargo (Fuel/Cargo or regular) that was protected by that, I think you would have a case to argue, although even those won't help if the critical hit severity is high enough (severity 5 is reduced to severity 4, which destroys all cargo anyway...).

He also mentioned that they did the damage wrong. Just rolled a D6 to get the effect rather than using the effect rules. The enemy gunner's rolls were not that great. I believe that calls for a do-over.

 

[Condottiere]

Water under the bridge, at this point.

You could have the deckplans open, for both ships, and place markers as to actual damaged areas, and then try to make reasonable arguments as to whether there is collateral damage to neighbouring compartments.

Cargo survivability may depend as to what it actually was.

 

[mavikfelna]

Water under the bridge, at this point.

You could have the deckplans open, for both ships, and place markers as to actual damaged areas, and then try to make reasonable arguments as to whether there is collateral damage to neighbouring compartments.

Cargo survivability may depend as to what it actually was.

20 tons of high tech industrial gear and cybernetics in the Fuel/Cargo container. We also had 10 tons of mail, 4 tons of generic freight and less than a ton of passenger luggage in the main cargo hold. We also lost 14 medium passage payments for the customers we had to disembark after getting back to the naval base.
So it wasn't volatile or particularly fragile and is reasonably dense. Not really reasonable for a simple dual beam laser turret to destroy all of that in 1 shot.

 

[Condottiere]

The mail should, in theory, be in a vault.

With a direct hit, the high tech stuff should be fried.

Though, salvage rules could apply, as well.

 

[mavikfelna]

He also mentioned that they did the damage wrong. Just rolled a D6 to get the effect rather than using the effect rules. The enemy gunner's rolls were not that great. I believe that calls for a do-over.

Unfortunately, GM isn't going to take back the crit and the loss stands. Our plan now is petty revenge. We're going to hire the best lawyer in the system and sue them into oblivion while we also work with NavInt to expose their patron, who is potentially a high level noble that would possibly gain some leverage over if we pull this off. We're still left with a big loan to pay off, our damage to repair and no ability to earn income for some time while this all happens.

 

[mavikfelna]

The mail should, in theory, be in a vault.

With a direct hit, the high tech stuff should be fried.

Though, salvage rules could apply, as well.

We don't have a vault. But the only requirement for carrying mail is that the ship is armed and carries gunners for the guns.

I'll have to see if the GM will allow any salvage, that is a good idea.

 

[boggo2300]

though there is no requirement a ship carrying mail be armed (there is a dm+2 to be awarded a mail contract if you are armed, but there is no requirement for it), and you don't need a vault the mail cores themselves are already secure.