Crimson Mist/ Greater C. M.
- Thread starter Belkregos
- Start date
….this seems to limit the ability almost beyond use, especially greater crimson mist, since a character only evokes a terror save when encountering a “monster he has never encountered before” and since monsters are so rare in Hyborian campaigns, and usually human foes are worst than the “monsters”, also the ability is already limited to once per day,
i dont mean this to sound as a complaint, just wanted to see if i was reading the ability right
isn’t there an errata about this?
i dont mean this to sound as a complaint, just wanted to see if i was reading the ability right
isn’t there an errata about this?
That depends. I've only read about five Conan stories myself but all had a monster in it. I've run a barbarian through about 6 levels and I've used Crimson Mist more then Bite Sword. It depends on the campaign really. But the first line of Crimson Mist description says it's only for when a barbarian suceeds in a will roll against terror.
By a strict reading of the rules you can only use it when you succesfuly save against terror which of course requires you face soemething that provokes a terror check in the first place.
Optional house rule
All combat is inherently frightining. The rush you feel at putting your life on the line can be used to "psych" yourself up into a fury but do it wrong and you risk "psyching" yourself out.
A barbarian can voluntarily call for a Will (fear) save vs DC 15. Success means he can use his (Greater)Crimson Mist ability. Failure means he is shaken for the remainder of combat: -2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks.
Hope that helps.
Optional house rule
All combat is inherently frightining. The rush you feel at putting your life on the line can be used to "psych" yourself up into a fury but do it wrong and you risk "psyching" yourself out.
A barbarian can voluntarily call for a Will (fear) save vs DC 15. Success means he can use his (Greater)Crimson Mist ability. Failure means he is shaken for the remainder of combat: -2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks.
Hope that helps.
argo said:
This would be along the pattern REH presented in his non-CONAN tales. Look e.g. at his crusader stories, where the hero regularly has his vision in a bloody haze without ever encountering something supernatural, but "only" being ravaged by feelings of hatred and revenge.
As a GM I'd allow such Will save only in dire situations when great and overwhleming spontaneous feelings are involved.
sanseveria
Mongoose
The variation, (if I can call it that) that I use, is that in addition to a terror check when facing a monster, I allow the Barbarian to make a save whenever he encounters a enemy sorcerer who casts a spell, or uses a magic item or a feared alchemical item. Anything of that nature that the barbarian might not understand or be acustomed to would force a saving throw.
SS
SS
I understand the way the rules are stated but they seem a bit restrictive for the way I tend to write and run my games and wanted to get some input from other games to see if it would be overly powerful to allow the freedom to the player to call when to roll the save
I tend to write adventures where the foes are mainly humans, trying to limit the supernatural a bit, or even when “monsters” appear they tend to be some “proto-natural” version and not too fantastic, fearsome yes, tough yes, but I’m not sure if they are necessarily “monsters” also sorcerers rely more on “tricks” a bit of engineering and a bit of empirical chemistry, foes tend to have terrain and larger organization advantage so there’s some adventures where there would be no “terror of the unknown” check but the character lives will be very much in peril
Also I like players to manage their character abilities as much as possible and making the use of crimson mist available only after a terror check makes the ability use a bit too dependant on the one running the story
The fact that the ability can only be used once per day, I believe limits enough the ability, the player will try to make sure the character uses the ability only on the most critical moment otherwise he will be out of it when he needs it
I tend to write adventures where the foes are mainly humans, trying to limit the supernatural a bit, or even when “monsters” appear they tend to be some “proto-natural” version and not too fantastic, fearsome yes, tough yes, but I’m not sure if they are necessarily “monsters” also sorcerers rely more on “tricks” a bit of engineering and a bit of empirical chemistry, foes tend to have terrain and larger organization advantage so there’s some adventures where there would be no “terror of the unknown” check but the character lives will be very much in peril
Also I like players to manage their character abilities as much as possible and making the use of crimson mist available only after a terror check makes the ability use a bit too dependant on the one running the story
The fact that the ability can only be used once per day, I believe limits enough the ability, the player will try to make sure the character uses the ability only on the most critical moment otherwise he will be out of it when he needs it
The problem is that if you change Crimson Mist to be used when the player wants it or when the player decides to roll the ability then you trump the fighting madness feat and really make the Barbarian which is already an powerful class even more powerful.
Also while I don't have my AE edition to see if it states what qualifies as a monster I tend to think that any thing obviously corrupted or non human that's not a natural animal is a monster. If I have a sorcerer who is so frighting that he causes a terror check then I'd allow Crimson Mist to be used. I think a better solution to this problem would be to edit what causes terror checks and what qualifies as a monster rather then change how Crimson Mist itself is used.
I mean if you are changing class abilities bcaus eof limited use I'd thinkt hat Formation combat would be far higer on the list of underpowered class abilities.
Obviously I'm not telling you to not change it, cause having fun for you and your players is the primary goal of any game and no rule is set in stone but editing a class ability cause you don't think it's powerful enough could snowball. Mostly I'm just try to give you a cautionary warning.
Also while I don't have my AE edition to see if it states what qualifies as a monster I tend to think that any thing obviously corrupted or non human that's not a natural animal is a monster. If I have a sorcerer who is so frighting that he causes a terror check then I'd allow Crimson Mist to be used. I think a better solution to this problem would be to edit what causes terror checks and what qualifies as a monster rather then change how Crimson Mist itself is used.
I mean if you are changing class abilities bcaus eof limited use I'd thinkt hat Formation combat would be far higer on the list of underpowered class abilities.
Obviously I'm not telling you to not change it, cause having fun for you and your players is the primary goal of any game and no rule is set in stone but editing a class ability cause you don't think it's powerful enough could snowball. Mostly I'm just try to give you a cautionary warning.
I think the primary consideration here is flavor, not balance. Letting a barbarian who has spent a feat on Fighting Madness rage twice a day is not unbalancing. The problem is that the Conan barbarian is meant to be so much more than a raging idiot who beats things over the head until they stop moving. Restricting the "rage" class ability is an attempt to call attention to this distinction.
I think my group has a handle on that point so I don't feel I have a problem with the house rule I suggested earlier. YMMV
And on a related note...
Army of One
Your battlefield experience is so ingrained that it has become second nature.
Prerequisite: Soldier level 10+
Benefit: You may use any of your Formation Combat abilities even when you do not have the required number of allied soldiers with the same Formation Combat ability present. You must still meet all the other requirements of the Formation Combat ability (such as wearing the correct type of armor or being mounted). You may only use one Formation Combat ability at a time in this manner.
Later 8)
I think my group has a handle on that point so I don't feel I have a problem with the house rule I suggested earlier. YMMV
And on a related note...
Well now that you mention itfoxworthy said:
Army of One
Your battlefield experience is so ingrained that it has become second nature.
Prerequisite: Soldier level 10+
Benefit: You may use any of your Formation Combat abilities even when you do not have the required number of allied soldiers with the same Formation Combat ability present. You must still meet all the other requirements of the Formation Combat ability (such as wearing the correct type of armor or being mounted). You may only use one Formation Combat ability at a time in this manner.
Later 8)
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
*bump*
I know this thread is over a year old, but I have a question or two about this.
First off, "meeting a monster for the first time" is only _one_ reason for a Terror save. Clearly, many monsters are meant to invoke fear any time you meet one, not only the first time. This becomes obvious when you look at the Demon Killer feat.
I quote: "Each time you defeat a new monster, you become immune to the terror effect of that creature, if any".
This would make no sense if all monsters would cause terror only on first sight.
So this would mean that the Barbarian can fly into a Rage any time (once per day) he encounters a monster with fear effect, or any other source of Terror.
However this gets me to a question:
Isn't the Demon Killer feat rather counter-productive for a Barbarian? Of course +2 against Terror is good, but if he is immune, he doesn't need to make a save, thus he cannot use his Crimson Mist ability, unless you make a house rule.
Maybe change them as follows:
Crimson Mist: if the Barbarian succeeds his Will save against Terror, he can CHOOSE to fly into a rage.
Demon Killer: Will saves versus Terror effects of a creature type that has previously been defeated automatically succeed.
(So a Barbarian can choose whether to activate Crimson Mist against a monster type he has previously encountered)
What do you think?
I know this thread is over a year old, but I have a question or two about this.
First off, "meeting a monster for the first time" is only _one_ reason for a Terror save. Clearly, many monsters are meant to invoke fear any time you meet one, not only the first time. This becomes obvious when you look at the Demon Killer feat.
I quote: "Each time you defeat a new monster, you become immune to the terror effect of that creature, if any".
This would make no sense if all monsters would cause terror only on first sight.
So this would mean that the Barbarian can fly into a Rage any time (once per day) he encounters a monster with fear effect, or any other source of Terror.
However this gets me to a question:
Isn't the Demon Killer feat rather counter-productive for a Barbarian? Of course +2 against Terror is good, but if he is immune, he doesn't need to make a save, thus he cannot use his Crimson Mist ability, unless you make a house rule.
Maybe change them as follows:
Crimson Mist: if the Barbarian succeeds his Will save against Terror, he can CHOOSE to fly into a rage.
Demon Killer: Will saves versus Terror effects of a creature type that has previously been defeated automatically succeed.
(So a Barbarian can choose whether to activate Crimson Mist against a monster type he has previously encountered)
What do you think?
rgrove0172
Mongoose
I guess I havent thought of this much as my Barbarian player is only 2nd level at the moment but I would think that any situation in which the barbarian might face a spine-chilling fear could hve the effect. In my game the supernatural is pretty rare - I believe i might use the effect if a barbarian were facing a score of blood-crazed Picts rushing down upon him alone, or perhaps he and his small group suddenly face a hundred Zuagirs thundering out of the setting sun etc. Seems to fit Conan's response to such situations.
