CRB - Small Craft chapter

[IanBruntlett]

I'm getting to grips with spacecraft in the game.

I've reached the small craft chapter and I would like to know, for each craft:-

* Crew size
* Maximum number of passengers
* Amount of cargo space to devote to carrying an ATV or Air/Raft

Thanks

 

[AndrewW]

I'm getting to grips with spacecraft in the game.

I've reached the small craft chapter and I would like to know, for each craft:-

* Crew size

10 - 50 tons 1
60 - 100 tons 2

* Maximum number of passengers

Depends on cabin space and cockpit or control cabin in the bridge. Alternately one can use acceleration couches.

* Amount of cargo space to devote to carrying an ATV or Air/Raft

10 tons for the standard ATV.
4 tons for the standard Air/Raft.

 

[GypsyComet]

Each of the small craft lists the number of Crew Stations. High Guard talks about minimum crew.

I assume that recursive subcraft require the same volume they would on a starship.

Passengers are under-discussed in both the CRB and High Guard. HG wants 1.5 tons to carry a passenger, which is ridiculous for short haul designs. In-system transit craft can justify that much space (or more) since they are going to have travel durations like modern trains, but ship-carried landers should have accommodations more like airplanes, at 2 to 4 passengers per ton.

 

[AndrewW]

Passengers are under-discussed in both the CRB and High Guard. HG wants 1.5 tons to carry a passenger, which is ridiculous for short haul designs. In-system transit craft can justify that much space (or more) since they are going to have travel durations like modern trains, but ship-carried landers should have accommodations more like airplanes, at 2 to 4 passengers per ton.

Don't forget:

A small craft may have acceleration couches for short duration passengers (such as for surface-to-orbit voyages). These take up 0.5 tons and cost MCr 0.03 each.

 

[GypsyComet]

Don't forget:

A small craft may have acceleration couches for short duration passengers (such as for surface-to-orbit voyages). These take up 0.5 tons and cost MCr 0.03 each.

Where'd you find that?

 

[sideranautae]

4 tons for the standard Air/Raft.

4 tons? That's 56 cubic meters. Ain't happening with an air/raft.

 

[Anonymous]

4 dtons has been the standard for an air raft for as long as I can remember. The actual internal measurements of the hanger space are going to be smaller but in deck plan terms as I'm sure you know it's only 3m on a side if my memory serves me correctly... Don't forget that it also includes crew access to the a/r and a door to the outside. To you may be thinking 4 dtons isn't enough?

I've often wondered that the bay for any vehicle should be considered an air lock and what requirements that puts on it tho I've assumed that was a given.

 

[AndrewW]

Where'd you find that?

High Guard errata.

 

[sideranautae]

4 dtons has been the standard for an air raft for as long as I can remember.

I misread the post. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[GypsyComet]

Where'd you find that?

High Guard errata.

Ah good. Someone else noticed this already then.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Thanks for the help! Duly noted

 

[phavoc]

I'm getting to grips with spacecraft in the game.

I've reached the small craft chapter and I would like to know, for each craft:-

* Crew size
* Maximum number of passengers
* Amount of cargo space to devote to carrying an ATV or Air/Raft

Thanks

The books really don't break down passenger seating, so I did some research using modern airliners and came up with the following:

First Class: 3 per Dton (1-aisle-2)
6 per 2Dton (2-aisle-2-aisle-2
Business Class: 4 per Dton (2-aisle-2)
7 per 2Dton (2-aisle-3-aisle-2)
Economy: 5 per Dton (2-aisle-3)
9 per 2Dton (3-aisle-3-aisle-3)

How to read this: Using the first example, 1st class, you have one seat, the aisle, and then two seats side-by-side in a single Dton. The second line, also first class, has 2 seats, then an aisle, then two more seats, a second parallel aisle, and 2 more seats, all taking up 2 Dtons. It works, just in a more cramped way, for the other classes as well.

That's using the cramped seating from today's airlines. The template is a Boeing 777, which should be roughly analogous to a shuttle of the future. It's broken down by class since the future still uses money and there are those stupid rich people, the business guy and then everyone else that needs to get from ground to orbit, or to the local moon/station.

With anti-grav capabilities there is no need to make the passenger seats crash worthy. Nor would they, for economies sake at least, make them much different to protect against vacuum. Essentially it's pretty reliable, though never without risk.

Cargo space for ATV/Air-Raft: The books have always factored in form-fit storage of these, with somehow just enough room to get the door/hatch open so you can crawl inside. It's always been 4 tons for the air-raft and 10 tons for the ATV (tracked or wheeled) - at least that's what I recall. I may be wrong on the size.

In any case, if you just plan on carrying it, use the displacement of the vehicle and assume it just barely fits. If you plan on working on it, or having to load cargo into it, then you should treat it like a hangared craft (+30% displacement).

 

[GypsyComet]

In any case, if you just plan on carrying it, use the displacement of the vehicle and assume it just barely fits. If you plan on working on it, or having to load cargo into it, then you should treat it like a hangared craft (+30% displacement).

Not that an extra 30% is going to allow much access. You can just get away with it on the cylinder subcraft since you can spin the craft in the bay. Anything else is going to need a LOT more space. This is why I preferred the TNE setup: 1x the volume is just a docking collar and form-fitting bay or recess. 2x is a cramped bay, and 4x is a full-sized hangar.

 

[phavoc]

Not that an extra 30% is going to allow much access. You can just get away with it on the cylinder subcraft since you can spin the craft in the bay. Anything else is going to need a LOT more space. This is why I preferred the TNE setup: 1x the volume is just a docking collar and form-fitting bay or recess. 2x is a cramped bay, and 4x is a full-sized hangar.

Nah, the 30% isn't like say what you'd have with a true hangar offering total access. If I recall correctly the Space Stations bumped up full-sized hangars to 300%. But the TNE rule of thumb seems kinda reasonable.

 

[AndrewW]

Nah, the 30% isn't like say what you'd have with a true hangar offering total access. If I recall correctly the Space Stations bumped up full-sized hangars to 300%. But the TNE rule of thumb seems kinda reasonable.

The amount in space stations for interior docking is due to different configuration, to have a generic bay that isn't form fitted.

 

[phavoc]

Nah, the 30% isn't like say what you'd have with a true hangar offering total access. If I recall correctly the Space Stations bumped up full-sized hangars to 300%. But the TNE rule of thumb seems kinda reasonable.

The amount in space stations for interior docking is due to different configuration, to have a generic bay that isn't form fitted.

Yep, that kind of meets the definition of "hangar".

The explanation provided for the space increase is to provide all-around access to the ship. Since Traveller uses Dtons and not actual ship dimensions it has to be generalized. Some of the ship designs would not fit due to their configurations, but fit just fine taking their displacement into account. The illustrations of some ships, like longer ones, give the game a nice feel, but from a rules perspective a cube = sphere = cylinder = a really, really long ship = a giant spindly one.

 

[Anonymous]

If you use the classic model of an air raft it is roughly a meter tall, turn the grav off in your vehicle bay and you've plenty of space to manoeuvre around the vehicle or to orient it any way you choose to access it to work on. That may not work with all vehicles but it could be made to work for most. I look forward to 3d deck plans!

 

[AndrewW]

Yep, that kind of meets the definition of "hangar".

The explanation provided for the space increase is to provide all-around access to the ship. Since Traveller uses Dtons and not actual ship dimensions it has to be generalized. Some of the ship designs would not fit due to their configurations, but fit just fine taking their displacement into account. The illustrations of some ships, like longer ones, give the game a nice feel, but from a rules perspective a cube = sphere = cylinder = a really, really long ship = a giant spindly one.

The hangar space inside a ship though is usually meant for a specific sized craft. The docking spaces in a space station on the other hand may take a Scout Courier one day and a Serpent Police Cutter the next. Now if you form fit the space around the Scout Courier it's not going to be able to take a Serpent Police Cutter.

Just based on the layout of a ship longer ones aren't going to fit in the same space as short and squat ones even with the same displacement, then there's different amounts of decks...

 

[IanBruntlett]

The books really don't break down passenger seating, so I did some research using modern airliners and came up with the following:

First Class: 3 per Dton (1-aisle-2)
6 per 2Dton (2-aisle-2-aisle-2
Business Class: 4 per Dton (2-aisle-2)
7 per 2Dton (2-aisle-3-aisle-2)
Economy: 5 per Dton (2-aisle-3)
9 per 2Dton (3-aisle-3-aisle-3)

Duly noted in my CRBs

 

[Infojunky]

Don't forget:

A small craft may have acceleration couches for short duration passengers (such as for surface-to-orbit voyages). These take up 0.5 tons and cost MCr 0.03 each.

Where'd you find that?

Don't forget the Acceleration Benches from the Darrian Book, 6 people per dTon for Cr10,000 (pg85)