Covered Advance
- Thread starter Paladin
- Start date
Ah, so the question becomes do you get to save fuel by turning off the engine or do you have to sit still and keep the motor running? :wink:
In my mind, the method of spending a Ready action followed by a Move action is analogous to moving half-speed within a building. In your case, it's outside but has the effect of Obscured LoS being used rather than desks and file cabinets in a room by paying for "half-speed", picking out depressions and other benefits from the uneven terrain features. As long as you got into that position by qualifying for it and your model isn't moving from the Obscured position, common sense would allow that position to be used more than once. Foxholes do not dissapear after use. Going back to combat within structures again for a moment, the combat dice do not change between models that are moving or not over several turns. I guess it comes down to whether the focus is really on the relationship between the Ready action to the Movement getting to the location or toward the location of the abstract Obscured terrain itself. As a game function (and suspending common sense of course) it could be ruled that the model has to pay each turn for the OLOS, but I say rather that a foxhole is a foxhole. :wink:
In my mind, the method of spending a Ready action followed by a Move action is analogous to moving half-speed within a building. In your case, it's outside but has the effect of Obscured LoS being used rather than desks and file cabinets in a room by paying for "half-speed", picking out depressions and other benefits from the uneven terrain features. As long as you got into that position by qualifying for it and your model isn't moving from the Obscured position, common sense would allow that position to be used more than once. Foxholes do not dissapear after use. Going back to combat within structures again for a moment, the combat dice do not change between models that are moving or not over several turns. I guess it comes down to whether the focus is really on the relationship between the Ready action to the Movement getting to the location or toward the location of the abstract Obscured terrain itself. As a game function (and suspending common sense of course) it could be ruled that the model has to pay each turn for the OLOS, but I say rather that a foxhole is a foxhole. :wink:
Paladin said:
I would say the fact that it says enemy turn means it only lasts for the next turn, I would back this up with it saying if you are shooting at the unit in reaction that this bonus is lost as it has lost its concealment. With the use of Revered leaders and command squads it is possible for units to take 3 actions... the 1st being ready then crawl then shoot....
Yes there is some wiggle room there that says if the unit sits there and does nothing for 2 turns then its still concealed, but I think that can be ignored by common sense, rather than sitting there doing nothing they ready and move 1mm forwards and then 1mm backwards....
lastbesthope
Mongoose
I dunno, if it meant only the next enemy turn, it would have been pretty easy to say that. It makes the specification during the enemy turn to then go on and state that they are not in cover in terms of enemy reaction fire.
LBH
LBH
cordas said:
Yes, but using the words as written it says "If attacked by an enemy" and not "If attacked by an enemy only on the following turn...". I'll grant that it also does not instead say "If attacked by an enemy on any following turn, even if the model had not moved on the player's immediately previous turn but had in some preious turn to that qualified for Covered Advance...", but how long do we want our rules books to be, anyway? :wink:
Regardless of which way this is ruled, I decided to make up some "Covered Advance" markers that I can place under infantry models.
Feedback anyone?
The center can be perceived as either a foxhole or a pizza (probably changing subconsciously depending on hunger status of the viewer).
Although I do not think that players are going to have any real trouble with the rules description of "Covered Advance" providing Obscured Line of Sight while the term "Cover" has a different meaning, but as a point of trivia did anyone else notice the fact that "Covered Advance" gives a +1 to Target but "Cover" gives a +2 to Target and Kill? :wink:
Feedback anyone?
The center can be perceived as either a foxhole or a pizza (probably changing subconsciously depending on hunger status of the viewer).
Although I do not think that players are going to have any real trouble with the rules description of "Covered Advance" providing Obscured Line of Sight while the term "Cover" has a different meaning, but as a point of trivia did anyone else notice the fact that "Covered Advance" gives a +1 to Target but "Cover" gives a +2 to Target and Kill? :wink:
Lorcan Nagle
Mongoose
While I know fluff isn't rules, the opening paragraph of the covered advance rules make it clear it's only intended to be a one turn thing - the troops are hugging contour lines or similar terrain effects as they advance - it's not meant to be the same as finding cover you can hole up in.
Lorcan Nagle said:
Fair enough. I can see where that could be the genesis of the rule option and might very well be ruled as such in a future FAQ. Barring that event, it could be argued that if a rock was good enough to hide behind once, it should still be good enough to hide behind the next turn. BTW, I'm not necessarily saying that my markers are actual foxholes, but rather that their circular geometry fits well as a graphic. I do see the vision of a battlefield strewn with debris and uneven in its topography. Heck, even though my markers indicate what might be ruled as completely abstract terrain features that modify enemy fire target dice, you could even sprinkle a few of the markers around a table to act as actual very small terrain features that move from an abstract concept and solidify into an actual terrain device. :idea:
What about this for a solution to this topic?
Mongoose Steele said-
"Remember, Ready Actions do NOT carry over from turn to turn in Evo."
Grabbed from: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=389193#389193
Now if this is stated as a blanket rule in the game, then we have our answer. :idea:
It doesn't change my markers, though. They can still work one turn at a time. :wink:
Mongoose Steele said-
"Remember, Ready Actions do NOT carry over from turn to turn in Evo."
Grabbed from: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=389193#389193
Now if this is stated as a blanket rule in the game, then we have our answer. :idea:
It doesn't change my markers, though. They can still work one turn at a time. :wink:
Yet another version (ok, I'll stop now, lol). This version is smaller (1" square) and although it can be placed under the models this one would look fine if just placed next to them. I made them square rather than round because of easier cutting out using scissors. All we need now is for Matt to confirm that what Mongoose Steele said is a "global rule" and that would punch this topic's ticket.
BuShips said:
Does it say that in the Advanced Main Rule book, cos I can't see it on the basic sheet. If it says that then its fairly obvious
Dang its hard trying to argue about rules when you ain't got all the infomation.If it does say that then its obvious really, it don't carry over. It would have put something in like is in the MG ready rule, it quite clearly says a "readied" mg stays "readied" untill moved.
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
Really the rules sheet doesn't address Ready actions. It just mentions them in a descriptive way. Reason seems to me, is Ready Actions are another word for special actions. That said, just wait for the Adv. Rule book, or just go with what it stated in that preview for now.
In other words Each Ready Action has it's own decription and can not be pigeon holed into any one set rule.
In other words Each Ready Action has it's own decription and can not be pigeon holed into any one set rule.
cordas said:BuShips said:
Does it say that in the Advanced Main Rule book, cos I can't see it on the basic sheet. If it says that then its fairly obvious
If it does say that then its obvious really, it don't carry over. It would have put something in like is in the MG ready rule, it quite clearly says a "readied" mg stays "readied" untill moved.
I'll leave that for those with an advanced rulebook. If it says it on the basic rule sheet, then it must be in white text :wink:. Bryan Steele should know, but I'm sure that Matt will chime in at some point. Has this question been taken to the Rulesmasters area yet (not that every question needs to)? Having an overarching rule like "Remember, Ready Actions do NOT carry over from turn to turn in Evo" would be a good thing to lean upon.
Paladin said:
It depends, if all you have done is hide behind the rock (and nothing else) then maybe yes. If the model hides behind it and does something to attract attention such as shoot then no. The rule is about taking advantage of little bits of LOS obscuring non terrain. If you want to gain a proper obscured status then use terrain.
Actually lets turn this on its head...
Turn 1
PLA Infantry readies
PI creeps down street taking cover behind bins and lamp posts
Brit Infantry moves
BI shoots at PI, PI gain obscured
PI do not react
Turn 2
PI - shoot, loose obscured - move, loose obscure - ready, ??? - nothing ???
PI - same as above
BI shoots at PI - the only way I can see the PI gaining obscured is if they do the ready covered move again.
My question is, what could the PLA inf do and maintain the advantage, if they do nothing for both turns I could see an arguement for them keeping the status... but they could also ready and wiggle move to keep the same.
I can't see any reason why they should keep this bonus, that can't be given by them repeating their previous actions, if they do anything else they will loose the obscured bonus (as is stated by they don't get the bonus from reaction shooting because they had to be seen to react to....)
Turn 1
PLA Infantry readies
PI creeps down street taking cover behind bins and lamp posts
Brit Infantry moves
BI shoots at PI, PI gain obscured
PI do not react
Turn 2
PI - shoot, loose obscured - move, loose obscure - ready, ??? - nothing ???
PI - same as above
BI shoots at PI - the only way I can see the PI gaining obscured is if they do the ready covered move again.
My question is, what could the PLA inf do and maintain the advantage, if they do nothing for both turns I could see an arguement for them keeping the status... but they could also ready and wiggle move to keep the same.
I can't see any reason why they should keep this bonus, that can't be given by them repeating their previous actions, if they do anything else they will loose the obscured bonus (as is stated by they don't get the bonus from reaction shooting because they had to be seen to react to....)
Lorcan Nagle
Mongoose
the bit about ready actions not carrying over is indeed in the advanced rulebook.
