Converting D20 spells to MRQ

[Lainier]

Hello! I'm making a World of Warcraft RPG conversion to RuneQuest and I have problems with the arcane magic (sorcery). Spells in Warcraft D20 have levels (from 0 to 9, normally), no matter if they are spiritual, divine or arcane. But in RQ, all sorcery spells have base Magnitude 1. I don't know how the convert D20 spell levels without overpowering or weaking sorcerers. My initial idea was to make variable base Magnitude for spells, like this:

D20 spell level RQ base spell Magnitude
0 0.5
1-2 1
3-4 2
5-6 3
7-8 4
9 5

The problem with this is that I'm not only making a conversion, but introducing house rules, as sorcery spells would have variable cost, and not a fixed cost of 1, and sorcerers would need INT equal to the spell's base Magnitude in order to know it, so with this system, less spells can be known than in the original system, and that's a thing I don't like. But I don't know how to convert D20 spells without having a variable base Magnitude. A D&D's 9-level spell is more powerful than a 1-level spell, and I'm not sure how to reflect that in the conversion if all spells have a base 1 Magnitude.

A friend of mine suggested one solution to avoid high use of INT to know powerful spells: A mage who has access to many spells of the same sub-type can use INT to know one of them, and then know more of that spells with a total base cost equal or less than the first spell, without needing additional INT points. For example, a Mage who has a spellbook with an Evocation-Fire spell with a base Magnitude of 3, an Evocation-Fire Spell with a base Magnitude of 2 and an Evocacion-Fire Spell with a base Magnitude of 1, can use three INT points to know all that spells.

 

[Rasta]

You could try converting all spells to a magnitude 1 level. The sorceror can always make spells more powerful.

 

[Lainier]

You could try converting all spells to a magnitude 1 level. The sorceror can always make spells more powerful.

Even if I have sorcery spells with variable Magnitude, some spells can have its Magnitude increased by manipulation, as D20 has spells wich increase in power with caster's level. But if all converted spells have Magnitude 1, there cannot be a great difference of minimum power between the spells. In D20, the minimum effect of a 9-level spell is far greater than the minimum effect of a 1-level spell. If I convert all spells to the same base, I would need to remake all effects and that it would be a veeery hard task.

 

[Rasta]

Even if I have sorcery spells with variable Magnitude, some spells can have its Magnitude increased by manipulation, as D20 has spells wich increase in power with caster's level.

Yeah, as there are no levels persay in Runequest, skill level kind of denotes level. Sorcerors in Runequest always start out "weaker" than their other magical counterparts.

But if all converted spells have Magnitude 1, there cannot be a great difference of minimum power between the spells. In D20, the minimum effect of a 9-level spell is far greater than the minimum effect of a 1-level spell.

It is the manipulation of spells that gives the sorceror his real power. That is kind of how sorcery in Runequest is set up. The potential for growth however is nearly unlimited. It is a slower process, but it is worth it.

If I convert all spells to the same base, I would need to remake all effects and that it would be a veeery hard task.

Agreed. Do what is fun to play. But this is the interpretation of rules as I understand them.

 

[weasel_fierce]

The main difference is that RQ sorcery is about the character becoming more skilled, making his spells more powerfull, rather than the character getting more skilled, which lets him learn a more powerfull spell.

Its a subtle difference, but basically RQ puts the emphasis on the character, while D&D puts it on the spell.

 

[Utgardloki]

I have been more concerned with converting D20 spells over for runecasters, so I've used a simple policy of spell level = spell magnitude. I am not sure how or if I would convert D20 spells over for use in the Sorcery rules -- perhaps your best bet is to divide the D20 spells into components and then let the sorcerers put together the components they want.

There you probably will have to consider whether some components have a higher magnitude than others. My mind is not really clear exactly how Runequest sorcery works, but perhaps a polymorph is magnitude 4, so if you want to cast any polymorph spells, you have to start with magnitude 4 and build up from there.

I have such guidelines in the back of my mind when I guage the spell level of a new D20 spell. In general, I think a Runequest Sorcerer would have the same magnitude/power cost as a D20 spellcaster has a level slot cost.

I hope this helps.

 

[Sadric 86th]

I've a suggestion. Simplification. Assign each spell a base Magic Point cost. You can go so far as to keep it really simple: a 0 level spell costs 1 MP, a 1st level spell costs 2 points, a 2nd level spell costs 3 points, etc.

To determine the number "spell slots" you've a couple of options.

You can just use the concept of Free INT, your spells in memory is limited by your INT rating.


Or:

You add your INT+POW to determine the capacity of spells you can "store" but instead of one spell equaling one slot, one spell costs its MP in slots. Thus, a character with an INT of 16 and a POW of 16 has 32 MP worth spells that can be stored in his or her memory. He might have eight 4 point spells or three 10 point spells and two 1 points spells, etc.

Or:

Like in the old 1st-3rd edition Stormbringer. INT+POW provides a "ranking." A character gains an "X" number of slots per sorcerer rank.

I hope this helps.

 

[Utgardloki]

This idea also came out of my contemplations of runecasting, but it might be useful.

For runecasters, I was considering adding concepts of "wizardry", "memorization", and "preparation". Wizardry is a synonym for the skill of Read Magic, which allows reading and casting magic spells from spell books. Unlike D&D, I would allow casting a spell from a spellbook without bad effect, but it would take longer (perhaps one combat round per spell magnitude).

Memorization is learning a spell so you can cast it without reference to a spell book. All Glorantha runecasters memorize all the spells they can cast. My thought is that you can memorize a total number of spell levels equal to your runecasting skill with that rune, but have to spend hero points equal to the spell magnitude you are memorizing. This is a slight modification of the standard MRQ rules, limitting how many spells a PC can learn.

Preparation is casting most of a spell during a preparation period, and only casting the last part when the spell is actually used. The advantage of this is that you can cast a spell a lot faster if it is prepared. You can prepare as many spell magnitudes total as your POW score.

As for RQ sorcerers (what I call "dynamic sorcerers") one possibility would be to convert the D&D spells as is, at the spell magnitude equal to spell level. Sorcerers could build a spell up or perhaps "deconstruct" the spell by casting it with lesser effect. A spell could perhaps be cast at a range of Touch for one magnitude less, for example.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lainier]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Well, finally I'm going to rewrite arcanist D20 spells to transform all of them to Sorcery spells with base Magnitude 1. A difficult job, but I've already converted general arcane spells and mage spells. I found some difficulties but I think it will work.

But know another problem arises: In D20, there are users of spiritual magic (Shamans, Druids...). In D20, arcane (sorcery) magic system and spiritual magic system are almost identical, but that's not the case of RQ.

It seems that MRQ has not spiritual magic equivalent to RQ3. The new rune system does not seem good to reproduce the power and behaviour of D20 Shamans and Druids. I want to use the old system to reproduce D20 spiritual spells, but that makes sorcery magic a lot more powerful than the spiritual one.

RQ3 sorcery spells needed a great amount of Magic Points to cast a powerful spell. In MRQ, you need only 1 Magic Point to apply a Manipulation effect, no matter the final power. That makes new sorcery much better than old spiritual magic, causing an great imbalance. Of course I can use the old Magic Points cost, but then I have another problem: In Warcraft universe, archmages and the like are very powerful, but If I use RQ3 Magic Points cost, an archmage would lose almost all his Magic Points after casting his more powerful spell. MRQ Magic Points cost is better to reflect the great power of a Warcraft archmage: An archmage can cast a lot of powerful spells and break havoc. And that's the problem: with the old cost, spiritual magic is balanced with sorcery, but sorcery power doesn't match Warcraft's universe, and with the new cost, sorcery power reflects better Warcraft's universe, but spiritual magic is very weak compared with sorcery.

¿Any idea about this? I think the only solution it's to rewrite RQ3 spiritual magic system. We can't discuss RQ3 rules because they are not Open Content, but if you have any idea, contact me by mail: lainierman@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot!

 

[juhanfg]

There is a spiritual magic system in Cults of Glorantha 2.

I hope this helps.

 

[Kravell]

It seems that MRQ has not spiritual magic equivalent to RQ3. The new rune system does not seem good to reproduce the power and behaviour of D20 Shamans and Druids. I want to use the old system to reproduce D20 spiritual spells, but that makes sorcery magic a lot more powerful than the spiritual one.

...

¿Any idea about this? I think the only solution it's to rewrite RQ3 spiritual magic system. We can't discuss RQ3 rules because they are not Open Content, but if you have any idea, contact me by mail: lainierman@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot!

Signs & Portents 45 (free here on the website) has spirit magic available. Each spell is a seperate advanced skill much like sorcery.

 

[Lainier]

There is a spiritual magic system in Cults of Glorantha 2.

I will try to look at it ^_^

Signs & Portents 45 (free here on the website) has spirit magic available.

Thanks a lot! I think I can convert D20 spiritual spells using that new system. I find very interesting that spirit invocation spells do not need INT to be learned.

 

[Nickbergquist]

GORE!'s magic system is basically a D20 variant welded on to the MRQ SRD. You might want to take a look at it (it's up on lulu.com last I checked, just search for GORE!)