Congratulations on Traveller!
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Greg Smith
Mongoose
EDG said:Like that guy from Office Space?
Watch out he doesn't burn the building down.
Mark A. Siefert
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
Ah... well I apologize.
I've been playing Traveller for about 15 of the last 24 years... I've run CT, MT, TNE, T4, T20, GT, StorytellerTrav (a port of Traveller to the 1st Ed Vampire Rules), EABA-Traveller.
I've been involved in several playtests (WFRP2, T20, T5, EABA, CORPS Bestiary, B5Wars, and an unreleased adventure for Arrowflight) both RPG and Boardgame. I've written RPG's from scratch (but not to publication)...
Tinkering with Traveller is a hobby. The biggest problem with T4 was that stat and skill had the same level of effect on tasks, AND the same cost to acuire, both per level... but stats were far more useful as only 6 stats were present, and 100 skills, and each task used one stat and one skill, so each point of stat was worth considerably more valuable to the character. The T4.1/T5 task system merely made the break-even point level 3 or 4 instead of level 1.
Because of the nature of CT rulesets, almost every CT GM tinkered with it. It was normative to the era and the industry. I've done more than my share. I started playing CT 24 years ago. I started tinkinering with it the following year, when I became the groups primary GM. (My sincerest thanks to Rick Singleton, the GM before me, for both showing me a great time, a good setting, and a decent and malleable set of rules... and leaving me the group when he graduated CHS...)
I hope RTT/MoTrav is good. equal effect and equal cost to raise between stats and skills was a major problem with T4 (one of several), and one I hope Mongoose avoids.
I've been involved in several playtests (WFRP2, T20, T5, EABA, CORPS Bestiary, B5Wars, and an unreleased adventure for Arrowflight) both RPG and Boardgame. I've written RPG's from scratch (but not to publication)...
Tinkering with Traveller is a hobby. The biggest problem with T4 was that stat and skill had the same level of effect on tasks, AND the same cost to acuire, both per level... but stats were far more useful as only 6 stats were present, and 100 skills, and each task used one stat and one skill, so each point of stat was worth considerably more valuable to the character. The T4.1/T5 task system merely made the break-even point level 3 or 4 instead of level 1.
Because of the nature of CT rulesets, almost every CT GM tinkered with it. It was normative to the era and the industry. I've done more than my share. I started playing CT 24 years ago. I started tinkinering with it the following year, when I became the groups primary GM. (My sincerest thanks to Rick Singleton, the GM before me, for both showing me a great time, a good setting, and a decent and malleable set of rules... and leaving me the group when he graduated CHS...)
I hope RTT/MoTrav is good. equal effect and equal cost to raise between stats and skills was a major problem with T4 (one of several), and one I hope Mongoose avoids.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
After reading the S&P article, my concern is with the Newness of material. As an old Traveller (started in the fall of 1977), I would HATE to see Mongoose basically redo the original books. I want to see some NEW material as well.
If you are going to give us the Spinward Marches (AGAIN), it needs to contain something new, something that makes it worth buying all over again. Every version of Traveller has had it's map of the Spinward Marches, so I suggest Mongoose think carefully about what they will be adding to the body of text on this semi-sacred area of Traveller.
Also, if the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) is going to be a sourcebook, I would be very interested. BUT, the OTU has a long and complex history with "Official" settings ranging over 1400 years. How is that going to be handled?
If you are going to give us the Spinward Marches (AGAIN), it needs to contain something new, something that makes it worth buying all over again. Every version of Traveller has had it's map of the Spinward Marches, so I suggest Mongoose think carefully about what they will be adding to the body of text on this semi-sacred area of Traveller.
Also, if the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) is going to be a sourcebook, I would be very interested. BUT, the OTU has a long and complex history with "Official" settings ranging over 1400 years. How is that going to be handled?
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Having had a few days to think about the article and my own reaction to it at first, I would like to clarify what I said a bit.
My first impression is that it will be a rehash of LBB1-3 (the original books). IF the character generation method is significantly different than what is going to be in Book 4 (Mercenaries) etc, then there is a problem for me. I would like the characters I create in the Core Book to be compatible with characters created in the later books. Don't add new skills, don't make the advanced characters have twice the skills as the basic characters. PLEASE don't do that to us AGAIN. You can certainly add history and detail to the character, but don't CHANGE the character.
Updated information is certainly needed and obviously a CORE system is going to have to be a rehash of old stuff, to some extent. I guess a nice consolidation of all the various rules that were published would be very nice. FIX the major flaws in the original work, PLEASE.
Regarding publishing the Spinward Marches etc, instead of a new Sector, I have to admit I have had a change of heart on this one. There are a LOT of variations (contraditions) in the various official versions of the Spinward Marches. If those differences can be reconciled, that is a very good thing. There are something like 440 planetary systems in the Spinward Marches and very few of them have been detailed. There are some very weird systems in the Marches with NO explanation of how/why they came about; information on that kind of thing would be very welcome.
On another forum, someone suggested that if the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) were to concentrate on the Spinward Marches and the Solomani Rim (area around Earth) and let the OGL people fill in the rest of the Imperium that it could work quite nicely.
In Summary, the short article felt to me that we were going to get a rehash of the same old material, but after thinking about it, there is a need for a lot of that but there also needs to be some fixes for the worst problems.
My first impression is that it will be a rehash of LBB1-3 (the original books). IF the character generation method is significantly different than what is going to be in Book 4 (Mercenaries) etc, then there is a problem for me. I would like the characters I create in the Core Book to be compatible with characters created in the later books. Don't add new skills, don't make the advanced characters have twice the skills as the basic characters. PLEASE don't do that to us AGAIN. You can certainly add history and detail to the character, but don't CHANGE the character.
Updated information is certainly needed and obviously a CORE system is going to have to be a rehash of old stuff, to some extent. I guess a nice consolidation of all the various rules that were published would be very nice. FIX the major flaws in the original work, PLEASE.
Regarding publishing the Spinward Marches etc, instead of a new Sector, I have to admit I have had a change of heart on this one. There are a LOT of variations (contraditions) in the various official versions of the Spinward Marches. If those differences can be reconciled, that is a very good thing. There are something like 440 planetary systems in the Spinward Marches and very few of them have been detailed. There are some very weird systems in the Marches with NO explanation of how/why they came about; information on that kind of thing would be very welcome.
On another forum, someone suggested that if the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) were to concentrate on the Spinward Marches and the Solomani Rim (area around Earth) and let the OGL people fill in the rest of the Imperium that it could work quite nicely.
In Summary, the short article felt to me that we were going to get a rehash of the same old material, but after thinking about it, there is a need for a lot of that but there also needs to be some fixes for the worst problems.
steffworthington
Mongoose
I agree with Bromsgrev. I own CT, MT, and TNE but still bought loads of GT stuff purely for reference (which was brilliant) but never bought the rules. I avoided T4 like the plague.
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
(It's very odd having the same discussion with almost the same people on 3 different boards, but it's perhaps worth reiterating some things here)
I'd prefer to see few, highly detailed, OTU sector books; therefore an in depth Spinward Marches and, say Solomani Rim, rather than what we have now, lots of sparsely detailed, contradictory (fragmentary), errata laden, and vanilla sectors.
If Traveller canon in it's totality is going to be Mongoosed then there's little room for ref development.
On a related query, how is the UWP going to be implemented? I ask because it is a key component of the CT core rules, and therefore implicitly associated with the OTU. Does that mean SST and Strontium Dog (and Dredd!) will also use the UWP, or will the system/world generation system use a new generic mechanic?
(As for my own opinion on this, I wouldn't be sad to see the UWP die off: it's a very complicated way of saying not very much.) 8)
BTW, what is the extant form of notation describing planets for SST?
I'd prefer to see few, highly detailed, OTU sector books; therefore an in depth Spinward Marches and, say Solomani Rim, rather than what we have now, lots of sparsely detailed, contradictory (fragmentary), errata laden, and vanilla sectors.
If Traveller canon in it's totality is going to be Mongoosed then there's little room for ref development.
On a related query, how is the UWP going to be implemented? I ask because it is a key component of the CT core rules, and therefore implicitly associated with the OTU. Does that mean SST and Strontium Dog (and Dredd!) will also use the UWP, or will the system/world generation system use a new generic mechanic?
(As for my own opinion on this, I wouldn't be sad to see the UWP die off: it's a very complicated way of saying not very much.) 8)
BTW, what is the extant form of notation describing planets for SST?
Klaus Kipling said:
Not sure (was never my line) but I think SST had a pretty limited number of worlds that had a fair bit of written description for each.
UWP was a method for trying to getting a usable amount of information on various worlds in a simple format. However it produced in the old SW pages upon pages of bland lists, that as a GM I would then largely ignore. If players wanted to go somewhere I would make stuff up after briefly glancing at some facts (Starport, tech level, and a few other bits and pieces). The UWP for me was a bunch of alpha-numeric notations, most of which were - bleh. On more than one occassion I think my CT parties would have depopulated entire worlds with the UWP as was...
We have been discussing the best way to go forward with the SM, and are seriously looking at how to provide a high quality product that provides something new to both old timers and new comers alike, without messing up what has gone before.
I liked the old Traveller setting (not enough aliens to blast holes through for my taste, but other than that a bally marvellous place to visit), and I want to do my part in ensuring that people will be still adventuring in the Spinward Marches for at least another 30 years.
toothill man
Mongoose
the long codes did nothing for me and of course the fact is with a big enough bribe a populated worlds ratings could change over nght :wink:
toothill man
Mongoose
I wanted to know more like why the air is now polluted why their is ruins but no life etc also the group when merc used it like a shopig list of who they could raid but couldnt raid back :?
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
I don't think they contain enough info to be useful, really. Nothing on biosphere, natural resources, wealth, or even what species is the dominant native.
And they basically garuntee that there is no consistency whatsoever between different peoples MTU's, even when they're striving for some kind of consistency.
Then there's the hoops people have to jump through to make sense of them. Starfall is a good example: a good place for adventuring, and then you realise the pop level can't really justify that kind of civilisation, and the rationalisation, despite the best and laudable efforts of the authors, is stretching credibility beyond breaking point. And this isn't the exception; it's the norm.
I remember trying to find a Tatooine-esque world in the Gateway Domain, low law level frontier western feel place, and in 4 sectors could only find 1 suitable UWP. One!
Some people say you can change them if you like, and well, that's fine. But if it were a detailed write-up, and I changed it, I could use other elements of it in other places. A UWP has zero value once you decide not to use it.
Another product like AoTI (even one with UWPs) is likely to kill the Traveller brand. If new players/refs end up paying money for a book full of pointless numbers in lists, then they're likely never to buy anything with Traveller on it ever again; and they'd be right.
Airless anarchic mining camp contains more info than D200300 B, and you don't have to look up the definitions on awkward tables.
And they basically garuntee that there is no consistency whatsoever between different peoples MTU's, even when they're striving for some kind of consistency.
Then there's the hoops people have to jump through to make sense of them. Starfall is a good example: a good place for adventuring, and then you realise the pop level can't really justify that kind of civilisation, and the rationalisation, despite the best and laudable efforts of the authors, is stretching credibility beyond breaking point. And this isn't the exception; it's the norm.
I remember trying to find a Tatooine-esque world in the Gateway Domain, low law level frontier western feel place, and in 4 sectors could only find 1 suitable UWP. One!
Some people say you can change them if you like, and well, that's fine. But if it were a detailed write-up, and I changed it, I could use other elements of it in other places. A UWP has zero value once you decide not to use it.
Another product like AoTI (even one with UWPs) is likely to kill the Traveller brand. If new players/refs end up paying money for a book full of pointless numbers in lists, then they're likely never to buy anything with Traveller on it ever again; and they'd be right.
Airless anarchic mining camp contains more info than D200300 B, and you don't have to look up the definitions on awkward tables.
steffworthington
Mongoose
Gotta agree with Klaus. Although i do own a couple of books with meaningless data in. I think it stems from Marc Miller being a wargamer. UWP still leaves the referee having to come up with loads of info where "Frontier dustbowl with criminal human element" says so much more. With UPP (and UWP) my worlds became awfully generic if the pc's visited more than 6. remeber, despite those incidental gearheads out there most roleplayers wnat to know the feel of a planet they're visiting not it's circumference.
That's why I think '2300AD/2320AD' is by far the best rpg setting ever. There's only 29-33 worlds and they're completed with maps and FULL decriptions. Too many worlds means too much choice...like TV... nothing is ever used to it's full potential because there is too much choice. Just my opinion.
That's why I think '2300AD/2320AD' is by far the best rpg setting ever. There's only 29-33 worlds and they're completed with maps and FULL decriptions. Too many worlds means too much choice...like TV... nothing is ever used to it's full potential because there is too much choice. Just my opinion.
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