Conflicting career instructions?

[phild]

I've come across this little gem:

If you roll a 12 for Advancement, you must continue in a career.
However, if you're a Scout and you roll event 3 there's a chance that you are not allowed to re-enlist.

Which trumps which? The advancement roll follows the event roll, so in a sequential sense that ought to take priority. However, I'm inclined to have the Event take precedence.

And obviously, as a good GM, I'd just sit down with the player and agree a way forward on a case-by-case basis. But this is for my all-singing, all-crashing Excel program, and Excel isn't so good at the fluffy, case-by-case stuff

 

[Emperor Herdan]

I would treat it sequentially as well...

If the event happens before the advancement, then the event takes place (negating the roll for advancement...).

If you want to be kind, you could "promote" the player 1 grade as a "Thanks awfully, here's your hat, what's your hurry" way of being kicked out of the service. think of it as an "honourary" Promotion perhaps?

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[Woas]

I'd rule that they must leave the career (as per the Event result) but give the player a little Referee-favored "auto-entry" into a career that seems 'related' to the career the Event forced them out of (as per getting a really good Advancement role).
If the career the character was forced out of was the Scouts, I'd allow auto-entry into any the Navy or Merchant careers no questions asked and if the player can make a good claim for another career then maybe others.

Just my opinion on the situation.



Edit: I'm finally a Mongoose! 100th post!

 

[phild]

Edit: I'm finally a Mongoose! 100th post!

Congrats. I'm going to stop at 99. I like being a stoat

 

[Paladin]

Mid-life crisis but decides to stick with it in the end? Possibly changing job aspects/positions.

Or maybe you could call it the Brett Farve effect... I'm going to retire... I'm going to play...I'm going to retire... I'm going to play...I'm going to retire... I'm going to play...Ok, I'm retiring.

 

[kristof65]

Hmm - ok, I just looked at it - it seems that since you roll for the event before you roll for the advancement, if you got the mishap, it would kick you out before you even make the advancement roll, wouldn't it?

 

[phild]

Hmm - ok, I just looked at it - it seems that since you roll for the event before you roll for the advancement, if you got the mishap, it would kick you out before you even make the advancement roll, wouldn't it?

Indeed. But it's not a mishap. It's an event. And it's a "not renewing your contract" rather than a "kick out"!

It clearly says "you may not enlist in the Scouts at the end of this term" - i.e. it doesn't say, "you're kicked out". As such, the Advancement roll is presumably still mandatory. And if the advancement roll is still mandatory, maybe it's possible that a stellar performance will make up for the earlier cock up?!

Just another of those curious little process anomalies that crop up in the char gen chapter from time to time!

 

[kristof65]

Indeed. But it's not a mishap. It's an event. And it's a "not renewing your contract" rather than a "kick out"!

Ok. I see what I did - when looking through the rulebook, I flipped to the first career I found with an event #3 result that could result in leaving the service. I thought I was looking at Scouts, but I was looking at Agent. Result #3 for the Agent career can result in you having to roll on the mishap table, which could cause you to leave the career. Under that career, since it flips you back to the mishap table, I would rule that the event "sends you back" on the flow chart, so to speak, and that step 6C for mishaps on the flow chart skips you forward past the advancement roll. So what I said stands, but for the Agent career I was looking at, not what you asked about.

Looking specifically at the Scout career now. Um, wow. That's a definate contradiction of things. I can't find any rules anywhere that suggest one takes priority over the other. I think rather than worry about it, I'd just write it off as one of those weird contradictory life situations that happens, and when it does, work it out with the player (if I was the GM) or the GM (if I was the player) with a story that adds color to the PC's background and use the result that makes the most sense based upon that background idea.

The odds of it happening very often are pretty low - first off, the scout has to roll a 3 on the events table, then they have to roll less than 8 minus their pilot skill to actually get told they can't re-enlist, and then they have to roll a natural 12 on their advancement roll.

 

[phild]

I think rather than worry about it, I'd just write it off as one of those weird contradictory life situations that happens

Oh, for sure. I was just interested in getting a consensus for my chargen programme

 

[kristof65]

I think rather than worry about it, I'd just write it off as one of those weird contradictory life situations that happens

Oh, for sure. I was just interested in getting a consensus for my chargen programme

And once again, I failed to read everything - you clearly stated you were doing this for a program.

Well, you could have the program accept both results, "clone" the character and out put the PC both ways

Seriously, for a program, I think I'd resolve it depending upon how many terms the PC has already served. 1-3 terms, they get to stay in, 4+ it kicks them out. I would give them the advancement either way, though.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I would argue that "You may not enlist" next term is superceded by the "Must remain in the service" of a 12 on Advancement.

So you don't want to renew your contract with us, too bad, we are invoking clause 23.84.9.B (1) of your contract. The infamous "Needs of the Service" clause.

If you roll mishap, then you don't roll for Advancement, so there isn't a conflict there.

 

[kristof65]

So you don't want to renew your contract with us, too bad, we are invoking clause 23.84.9.B (1) of your contract. The infamous "Needs of the Service" clause.

But it's not the PC saying they don't want to re-enlist - it's the Scouts say "Hey, you can't re-enlist" and "You must re-enlist" at the same time.

Which is definitely something a bureaucracy would do, leaving the poor schmuck affected feeling trapped and uncertain.

Based on how I've seen the military deal with these things, it's usually dependant upon how long the person has been serving, which is why I suggested a term based solution. Then again, to be even more realistic, it should probably be 2-3 terms - stay in, while 1 term or 4+ terms would be buh-bye.

 

[lurker]

My vote is for doing it in sequence.
As stated, mishaps wouldn't be rolling for advancement.

Scouts Event: The Scouts indicate you will not be allowed to re-enlist but you are not booted and must complete your term of service.
Advancement natural 12: You have been advanced and in your new role in the scouts have proved yourself to be invaluable and must re-enlist.

Opposite would be similiar too (don't know if such exists though, don't have book with me)
Event: Indicates you must re-enlist
Advancement: You roll low and are not allowed to continue in this career.
At first, the characters service was required for another term but something happened afterwards and they were shown the door, got a pink slip, sent packing, given the boot, downsized, asked not to come back, given the axe, put on permanent leave, given their walking papers...

 

[Stattick]

When it comes to flowchart type things, I usually rule in the case of a contradiction that the first result trumps any later contradictary result. So, for me, I'd likely rule that they cannot reinlist. However, in this case, it is equally valid to go with the second result, since this is a true contradiction in the rules.

There is a third option: The two cancel each other. The character may choose to try to reinlist or not, per the normal rules.

 

[phild]

Which is definitely something a bureaucracy would do, leaving the poor schmuck affected feeling trapped and uncertain.

Hehehe, I love this idea. The player has to take the next term as a Drifter whilst remaining in the Scout service. They become one of those classic "sorry, you don't exist" characters, despite being paid every month regular as clockwork.

"I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. You're not being paid by the Scout Service because you're not an employee of ISS. I don't care what you claim to say, my database clearly states that there is no such person..."

 

[Stattick]

Which is definitely something a bureaucracy would do, leaving the poor schmuck affected feeling trapped and uncertain.

Hehehe, I love this idea. The player has to take the next term as a Drifter whilst remaining in the Scout service. They become one of those classic "sorry, you don't exist" characters, despite being paid every month regular as clockwork.

"I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. You're not being paid by the Scout Service because you're not an employee of ISS. I don't care what you claim to say, my database clearly states that there is no such person..."

Maybe they're undercover?

If so, they MUST take a new career for a term. But they report everything to the scouts, and get paid by them (secretly). They must rejoin the scouts on the next career, but do so without having to roll. When they muster out of the scouts, they get the benefits as if they were in the scouts for the term they spent in another career. Actually, I'd have them roll for the other career too.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Which is definitely something a bureaucracy would do, leaving the poor schmuck affected feeling trapped and uncertain.

Hehehe, I love this idea. The player has to take the next term as a Drifter whilst remaining in the Scout service. They become one of those classic "sorry, you don't exist" characters, despite being paid every month regular as clockwork.

"I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. You're not being paid by the Scout Service because you're not an employee of ISS. I don't care what you claim to say, my database clearly states that there is no such person..."

Maybe they're undercover?

If so, they MUST take a new career for a term. But they report everything to the scouts, and get paid by them (secretly). They must rejoin the scouts on the next career, but do so without having to roll. When they muster out of the scouts, they get the benefits as if they were in the scouts for the term they spent in another career. Actually, I'd have them roll for the other career too.

Or they are sacked from the scout service and begin a career of lawbreaking and money grabing as a PC. However for some odd reason the ISS and sub divisions thereof seem to have the PCs name on the books and keep sending out orders and some special duties from time to time. Now does the player report the error and get it cleared up or does he get the group to help him do the little jobs to maintain the fiction for all that free fuel and such like (What, why would we fill up your bulk frieghter for free this is the ISS not a charity???, this ship is a scout service vessel on special detached duty on covert asignment, check my file. Its listed under top secret) 8)