[CONAN] Two-Weapon Defence

[LucaCherstich]

I had a problem yesterday with this feat.
An Aesir PC was armed with sword & Large shield.
He usually fights with 2 wepons but since he had a shield, he enjoyed its use.

How do you use the feat with Shield?
Would you give the Aesir both the +3 Parry Bonus AND the normal +4 Parry bonus?
Or would you give only one of those bonuses?

The "Special" section on the feat description does not makes sense.
It refers to "making bashes" as soemthing that one usually do instead that parrying. While the situation is more fluid.
A warrior decides to make bashes or parry according to the situation, round by round.
It is obvious that you use the shield for parrying OR making bashes.
But If you do not bash, what you do with a shield if not use it for parrying?

P.S:
Here is the offical text:
Two-Weapon Defence
(General)
When wielding a weapon in each hand, you are an expert at defensive parrying.
Prerequisites: Parry, Two-Weapon Combat.
Benefit: When you fi ght with two weapons, you can give up one attack at your highest attack bonus with one of the weapons to gain a parry bonus to Parry Defence for one full round after you would have made the attack. This parry bonus is +2 if the weapon is light, or +3 if the weapon is one-handed.
Special: Two-Weapon Defence can also apply to shields if you use a shield to make shield bash attacks rather than for parrying.

 

[Mach5RR]

I would give the shield it's normal parry bonus (In your example +4).

As it stands, this feat doesn't really do anything with a shield until you take the feat Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.

Say you have a 20th level soldier fighting w/ sword and large shield. With Two Weapon defense, he can

+20 to hit with sword/+20 to shield bash (or +4 to parry for round)
+15 to hit with sword
+10 to hit with sword
+5 to hit with sword
Which is what he can normally do with the sword/shield combo anyway.

However, with two Weapon Defense and Improved Two Weapon Fighting:
+20 to hit with sword/+20 to shield bash (or +4 to parry for round)
+15 to hit with sword/+15 to shield bash
+10 to hit with sword/+10 to shield bash
+5 to hit with sword/+5 to shield bash

All the Two Weapon Defense does is give you the option to turn your weapon into a shield, where a shield already has the ability to be used as a weapon. Without the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat, this is really useless for shield use.

 

[Mach5RR]

First, the feat does not grant you a +3 to your parry. It grants you a +2 with a light weapon, and a +3 with a one handed weapon. This way, if you fight with a buckler, it still only gives you a +2 to parry with or without this feat.

Second, you are not giving up your highest BAB, you are giving up your highest BAB with one weapon. Normally I'd just say you were giving up your off-hand attack, but this feat is written that way to be more flexible in combat. Need a better attack? Just parry with the light (+2) while attacking with the one handed. Need a better defense? Just parry with the one-handed (+3) while attacking with the light. Since you only get the one attack with an off-hand weapon. whatever weapon you choose to parry with becomes your off-hand weapon for the round.

The problem is how the prereqs are written. All this feat is meant to do, is give you the flexibility of turning a weapon into a shield as needed. The prereqs and primary information are written with weapons in mind. Shields are merely added as an addendum. Since shields can already switch to weapons, this feat does nothing for them. To get those extra bash attacks listed in the feat, the player needs this one and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.

There is one interesting question from this. If you are using a shield defensively, you gain the normal parry bonus with no penalties to your attack. If you decide to shield bash, you lose your parry bonus and take penalties for fighting with an off hand weapon (depending on the size of the shield).
With Two-Weapon Defense, does this apply to weapons in reverse? Fighting with two one-handed weapons, you take the -4 penalty for fighting with an off-hand weapon. But if you use one to parry (like a shield), do you still take the -4 penalty to the other weapon?

 

[Supplement Four]

How do you use the feat with Shield?

You use the shield just like a weapon. Check the shield descripition. A buckler is considered a light weapon when used for a shield bash. A large shield is considered a one handed weapon.

Thus with a broadsword and a buckler, you'd give up your broadsword attack in order to get +2 Parry with your buckler (which is the same using the buckler normally). The difference is that you still get to attack with the buckler.

It's not a great feat if you're using a shield. You don't really gain anything and give up an attack to do it. You'd be better off using the buckler normally.

 

[Supplement Four]

Thus with a broadsword and a buckler, you'd give up your broadsword attack in order to get +2 Parry with your buckler (which is the same using the buckler normally). The difference is that you still get to attack with the buckler.

I guess a wide interpretation of the rule would allow you to gain a +2 on your shield.

Thus, you'd give up your broadsword attack, gain the +2 to Parry, and then instead of a shield bash attack, you use your shield normally, that could give you +4 to Parry (+2 for the use fo the Feat and +2 for the buckler).

I don't really think the rule is meant to be used that way, but a GM could stretch the interpretation a bit and give the Feat a wider purpose.