Conan The Valorous

[Supplement Four]

I read this book back in the mid-80's, right after it came out, and barely remember it. I'm only into the thing a little bit, but, damn, what a gruesome scene!

I've got a "thing" about guts--mainly intestines. When I was elementary school, I saw a run over dog, its mid-section squashed flat, and its intestines roping out of it. Damn, makes me want to love on my dog right now. I guess I'll never forget that image.

Funny I don't remember the scene in Valorous where the Vendhyan slits open the pirate's belly, grabs his intestines, and leads him around the deck of the ship pulling on the dying man's insides like a dog on a chain. Crap, what a scene. It was hard to read. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age because I was squeamish at the end of Braveheart when they disemboweled him, too.

That scene doesn't make me dislike the book--I just think it's "rough" and "gritty". Conan is supposed to be rough and gritty.

The scene that I don't like, though, is the short one, in the beginning, after Conan has won the fight from his pursuers. He staggers into Belverus with a pussy sword wound. He's had worse wounds in his life and knows this one shouldn't be infected the way it is. The Leech he sees (healer) tells him it wasn't caused from a poisoned blade. The Leech suspects sorcery.

And, then Conan thinks...and then laughs...because he figures out that the money he took from the dead men was cursed. They were paid in cursed coin.

COME ON! This isn't D&D! Sorcery isn't that common! Conan wouldn't just say, "Oh! I get it! The money is cursed! That's why my wound is pussy!" He'd be creeped out. Superstitious. He'd shun the coins--not just non-challantly exchange them at a money-changer. There's so much wrong with that scene, I'm not sure where to begin.

It's a short scene, but it really brought me "out of the story", so to speak.

Other than that, though, I'm really enjoying the book. The scene where Conan gears himself up on Khorshemish is fan-freakin-tastic. It's something so mundane--hitting the vendors and grabbing some gear--but JMR wrote that passage so well that its very interesting. I loved it. It gave the tale some "texture".

I like the overtones of a "god-game" going on, too, with powers higher than ourselves influencing events like pieces on a chess board.

So far, except for the cursed coin scene, I'm a thumbs up on this book. It ain't Howard. Not by a long shot. But, its damn enjoyable, so far.

 

[Spectator]

Yeah I have opined numerous times that Valourous is a good read. I actually liked the cursed gold since it is incredibly subtle and not flashy like traditional DnD and makes you think that it is feasible (as opposed to the exploding "Fire Trap" coin purse).

JMR does an incredible job laying the scene. I truly think he captures more of the background when he writes, than any other pastiche author.

I do love the Khorshemish gear-grabbing excursion.

This book is a delight to read except for the last 15 pages.

The Cimmerian tribes he describes ar downright awesome and intimidating in their primitive-ness, such as the tattooed Gallah (sp???) who carry shillelaghs around instead of swords due to their extreme poverty.


I love reading JMR's S.P.Q.R. series since he puts the same amount of detail into the historical fiction of 70BC Rome!!! Truly fun!

 

[Supplement Four]

JMR does an incredible job laying the scene. I truly think he captures more of the background when he writes, than any other pastiche author.

I like how "dark" he makes the magic. Jaganath calmly butchers one of the pirates, taking a piece of him and laying it at strategic places around the ship, using the fresh blood to make runes and magical markings.

And the thing that is summoned from the deep! That's straight out of Cthulu, I'll tell ya.

Good stuff!

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm at the part now where Hathor-Ka makes the assault on Thoth-Amon's home. JMR's description of Stygia is fantastic! I haven't read Vincent's Stygia supplement yet, but I hope it paints a picture the way JMR did. He made Stygia mysterious--very intriguing.

Man, those Shemite desert men--Moulay's men, dressed for stealth! They used rawhide on their horses' hooves, and the bridle was of rope. They wore chainmail woven into silk to keep it quiet. Their heads were covered in desert wrappings. I could totally picture it as these desert-ninjas popped up behind Thoth's perimerter guards, using their bowstrings as garrots, only to find that Thoth was using lizard men from the isles east of Lemuria instead of humans.

GREAT CONAN STUFF!

Almost done...just a couple more chapters.

Good book.

 

[Spectator]

Damn did JMR write that he had lizard men guarding?
I forgot that part.
Looked like he read the TSR module Conan Unchained! LOL.

 

[Supplement Four]

OK, finished the book. Here are my overall comments:

First, the writing is exceptional. JMR paints a picture with his prose. It's economical, leading to quick reading, but it's just the right amount to feel the wind on your face and the ground under your feet as if you were standing there with Conan when it happens.

The way he writes magic is very Lovecraftian (or what I think is "Lovecraftian" since I've never read a Lovecraft story), which makes it very Howard-ish, too. Howard never went into much detail about how magic works, to my knowledge, in any of his stories, always keeping it very mystical. JMR gives you a bit more than Howard, but it's not like you're getting a steak dinner. Where Howard gives you the rice pilaf, JMR will give you the baked potato too. You still don't have the entree.

In spite of how well JMR writes, he has a different style than Howard. JMR's Conan is closer to Jordan's hero than to Howard's shades-of-grey barbarian. No writer has captured the same feel that Howard does when he writes the Cimmerian. I think Carter comes closest, followed by de Camp and Offut, with Jordan and Roberts on the other side of the continuum.

That doesn't mean JMR's Conan is no good. I just said his writing is very addictive. It's just not the same as what Howard writes. It's different. The character feels different.

This must be a well-read book among extended-universe Conan writers, though, because so many things in this book are familiar. The MMO game, Age of Conan, used this book for a major section of the game--which is kind of neat, because as I read about Conan standing on a cairn in the Fields of the Dead at the base of Ben Morgh, I could actually see it in my mind because I've been there...I've been there when I played all those hours in the AoC game. That's pretty neat.

More than that, though, I can see all kinds of game mechanics as I read--combat maneuvers and special uses of skills. Feats. I can see levels of characters. Stuff from the Cimmeria sourcebook found its "source" here, as with the shieldwall rules (the Taunting rules were inspired by Turtledove's Venarium book, I think).

For example, look at this:

...(from a high position on a rock) Conan gathered his legs beneath him. With a spring that would have awed a Zamoran tumbler, he cleared two ranks of Vanir and landed outside the wedge once again.

That short little passage there encompasses so many things about this book--it's perfect for an example.

The writing, you can tell, is not Howard. Plus, it's a bit of a "super-hero" move, something that Jordan and Roberts put in to their Conan stories. I like it. It's not over the top. It's akin to watching your favorite movie action hero do something cool in the film. I love the new James Bond movies (the two most recent, starting with Casino Royale), and this type of move reminds me of something that would happen in those films. Conan is on a rock. The Vanir are pushing in. And, he jump over two ranks of enemies, to land on the other side of them and then start wading into the melee. Yeah, that's some cool shit. But, it's not Howard--not at all. Howard would never write that. Jordan would. I like it and can accept it, but I can see where the Howard pureists would reject it.

The shieldwall from the Cimmeria sourcebook is mentioned in the passage (the Vanir take a triangular shield wall to pierce through the Cimmerian's shield wall defenses).

From a game point of view, that move that Conan makes is in the game under the combat maneuver called Use The Battlefield. Conan uses the high position on the rock and makes a Jump check to jump over two ranks of men, gaining himself a +2 attack on his first target.

All through the book, I see acutal game rules being played out.



The Khitan wizard, Cha, reminded me so much of the wizard in the first Conan movie. I could see the same actor playing the part--the way JMR wrote him.

And, the end of the book is cool, too, if you don't follow Rippke's timeline. This story is set sometime after Conan has deserted from the Turanian army. It's supposed to tell the tale of Conan's homecoming. As the book ends, Conan leaves with Wulfhere and his Aesir band--which, of course, is the same bunch of Aesirmen that Conan is with when The Frost Giant's Daughter occurs. So, accoring to JMR and the de Camp/Jordan timelines, this story occurs immediately before FGD.

I like it when authors put some thought into where, in Conan's life, their story takes place. So many of them gloss over issues like that and just tell their stories regardless if the story conflicts with other Conan tales.



OK, that's stuff I did like about the book. Now, for a few things I didn't like.

Although the insights into magic is written well and feels "in-universe", the overall plot of the book seems to me to be very "D&D". If this were a Conan RPG session, I'd feel as if the GM had taken a D&D module and converted it. So, I have to give a thumbs down to the main plot.

The monsters, too, seemed to come straight out of a Michael Moorcock story. Ever read the Swords Trilogy or the Chronicles of Corum? If you have, you'll know what I mean.

At times, the magic seemed Lovecraftian, as I've said above (good). At times, it seemed D&D-ish, just mentioned (bad). At times, it seemed Moorcockian (bad). But, at other times, I was left with a sense of...Howard, believe it or not...specifically from The Tower of the Elephant. Some of what happens in this book meshes well with some of things Yag-kosha describes (good).

There's even a little part that speaks to higher technology as with some of the feeling you get when reading Yag-kosha's words. Check out this section of the book...

"I light," Cha said.

The others expected him to recite a spell to make fire. Instead, he reached into his rags and drew forth an odd mechanical contrivance of steel and stone, with a small bowl of oil soaked tinder. Cocking a spring, he snapped it a few times, shedding the sparks until the tinder burst into flame.

Upon first glance, you might think this type of thing is out of place in a Conan story. But, think harder. What about those strange mechanical devices that were seen in The God in the Bowl? Parts of The Tower of the Elephant seemed to tip its hat in this direction, too, with Yag-kosha's description of where he came from, how he got here, and what it was like before he became a captive.

It seems it's not wide spread, but there is a technology out there that at least some learned scholars (naturally) know. I do think it is good that JMR realized this and put it into this novel.

The section about the King Bull, though, is totally out of place. I enjoyed it. Again, it was well written, but it had no bearing at all on the plot.

I know that JMR wrote this section because the publisher said his book was too short and needed more pages (I've read that in his own words). And, it does show. I just wish Roberts would have put more effort into tying that episode to the plot somehow--maybe have a troop of Border Kingdom warriors show up at the end as did Wulfhere and his Aesir band to help the Cimmerians fight the devils, demons, and Vanir.

Oh, by the way, you'll miss it if you blink, but there is a neat exchange between Conan and Cha where Cha refers to the demons in speaking with Conan as "what you call demons"--meaning that they're really something else (Yag-kosha comes to mind again), and his barbarian brain can only think of them as demons.

That's pretty cool, too.

Finally, the reason given for the Cimmerians not using bows is that there isn't enough wood in Cimmeria. I think that's a huge flub on JMR's part. If there's no wood, then where does the Cimmerians get the foundation poles that the clan carries with them whereever they go? If they've got those poles, then certainly they can make some bows as well.

I might be able to buy that northern clans don't use bows because of little access to wood if the mountains aren't heavily forested. But, certainly, down south, especialy where Venarium stood, there is ample wood. Venarium wasn't build of stone. So, yeah, I've got to reject JMR's take on the bow situation.





All-in-all, though, this has been a fantastic book. I may seem critical above, but I want you to know that it was hard for me to put this book down. I kept needed to know what happens next. And, even though I have some issues with the book, I would highly recommend it to a Conan lover (provided he wasn't a Howard pureist who would just dog the book from page one).

 

[Spectator]

I'm glad you had a good time reading it. It is one of my favorite Pastiches.
I am surprised you didn't mention the over-the-top climatic ending. I was kinda let down by it.

I thought the magic was pretty Howardian, as well.

You are so right, when you are with JMR he actually transports you to the Vanir Hall, Cragsfell, or the BenMorgh. I encourage you to read his SPQR series.


I loved the Stygian sorceress Hathor-Ka. What a great character.

 

[Supplement Four]

I am surprised you didn't mention the over-the-top climatic ending. I was kinda let down by it.

I liked it. Since the overall plot seemed a bit "D&D" to me, I thought the quick ending, the way it was done, was perfect. A big, lavish ending would have made me roll my eyes a bit, I think.

Still, JMR should have connected the King Bull story with the rest of the book. Instead he went with the ancient Greek story-telling method of throwing un-related obstructions in the hero's way. Then again, Jason and the Argonauts this isn't.

I kinda "felt" it was going to end like that anyway when Thoth-Amon was telling Hathor-Ka about the order.

Or course, I read the book a quarter century ago, so maybe some of it was still in memory.

You are so right, when you are with JMR he actually transports you to the Vanir Hall, Cragsfell, or the BenMorgh. I encourage you to read his SPQR series.

He wrote several Conan novels. I remember I also liked Conan The Bold quite a bit, even though it broke with convention about the events in Conan's life according to other stories.

I loved the Stygian sorceress Hathor-Ka. What a great character.

You can say that about all of JMR's characters. He's a fantastic character writer. All of them are memorable. I especially like the scenes with Conan and Chulain fighting together. Great stuff.