Conan Prestige Classes

[Iron_Chef]

As opposed as I generally am to the idea of PrCs in Conan, here are some decent ones (most completely non-magical), though some will need to be tweaked for the setting:

SEDUCERS
Beguiler (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
Lothario (Ultimate Prestige Classes #2, Quintessential Human)
This is a seducer/corrupter/poisoner for male or female characters similar to my Femme Fatale core class I made for Conan, though I forgot to consult them when I made mine up, LOL.

BODYGUARDS
Bodyguard (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
This PrC gets observation abilities and special abilities to defend his charge similar to the Devoted Defender of Sword & Fist. Conan examples of this class are numerous (Bombaata from Conan The Destroyer springs to mind).

BOUNTY HUNTERS
Bondsman (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
This is a bounty hunter.

PIRATES
Brethren (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Gentleman Pirate (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Marauder (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Pirate (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Reckless Boarder (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Sail Rider (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Lots of pirates in Conan! ARRR! AVAST THERE, ME HEARTY!

BARBARIANS
Chieftain (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
Good for barbarians. Plenty of chieftains in Conan.

NOBLES/SOLDIERS
Commander (Noble's Handbook by Green Ronin)
Lord Knight (Noble's Handbook by Green Ronin)
This is a civilized military commander or knight for battlefield use. Plenty of examples of these guys in Conan.

CULTISTS & CONSPIRATORS
Conspiracy Leader (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
Cult Leader (Campaign Magazine #2 by Fast Forward Entertainment)
Cult Leader (Alt.) (Ultimate Prestige Classes #2, Quintessential Human)
Demagogue (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
Impersonator (Noble's Handbook by Green Ronin)
Infiltrator (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
Mastermind (Noble's Handbook by Green Ronin)
Religious Leader (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
These are all variants of the same idea and are well documented in Conan: Thulsa Doom from the CtB movie, Jhandar from Conan The Unconquered, etc. The demagogue is more of a political idealogue bent on establishing a Cult of Personality, like Hitler, Stalin or Napoleon. These PrCs use dogma (religious or political) to gather riches, followers and power. The conspiracy leader/mastermind creates sleeper cells (like Thulsa Doom in CtB), while the IOmpersonator/Infiltrator carries out their evil schemes, assassinating and replacing targets or posing as legitimate members of rival organizations. The Campaign Mag Cult Leader is a Cthulhu-esque high priest type; the Mongoose version is more of a con-man with no real faith of his own (see Conan The Rogue for an example). The Mongoose version is problematic in that it has D&D cleric powers at higher levels that would need to be stripped out for Conan.

DIPLOMATS
Diplomat (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
Diplomat (Noble's Handbook by Green Ronin)
Politician (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
All civilized nations have these guys.

SCHOLARS
Information Mage (Dynasties & Demagogues by Atlas Games)
A sorcerer specializing in Divination to aid himself or a ruler; items he makes he can use to track the bearer.
Jali ("Witchdoctor") (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)
Savage, voodoo shaman good for Black Kingdoms to differentiate their magic.

ASSASSINS
Nightstalker (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
Sniper (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)

SLAVERS
Slaver (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)


NPC only classes (Level 1-5 mini core classes):
Canthartisan (Alchemist) (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
Henchman (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)

Fading Suns d20 has some nice alternate core classes, too, such as a non-magical Priest (if one was dissatisfied with Conan's version).

 

[BhilJhoanz]

I would encourage you to draw PrC ideas from the source material and then goto secondary sources for ideas in fleshing them out. Inserting foriegn ideas into the tightly defined Hyborian world could lead to a watering down of the world's flavor.

That said . . . I'm afraind I'm not familiar with any of the PrC's you mention but would love to see your ideas . . .

 

[Iron_Chef]

I've regrouped and explained the use of the above PrCs in my thread starting post. I think that if PrCs are to be introduced, that it might be easier to use generic ones that can then be tweaked if necessary to fit specific aspects of the setting. Ones that fit a broad number of cultures and nations, but maybe give each race/culture a specific cookie different than the rest---for example, the racial benefits at 2nd level of the Noble class in Conan. So a Zamorian Cult Leader is slightly different from a Stygian cult leader, etc.---This virtually eliminates the need for multiple PrCs for every race and nation.

Just some thoughts... If PrCs are coming anyway, I might as well provide some input.

 

[Johannixx]

I like the idea of getting away from PrC's and fleshing out a character purely through core classes and feats. With enough feats, you don't even need PrC's. For example, the Black Seers of Yimsha were just scholars like the Acolytes of the Black Ring or the members of any other sorcerous society in the Hyborian Age, but they learned different spells and probably took different feats. This can be constructed with the base Scholar class and appropriate feats and spells (hopefully more detail on sorcerous societies will come in Scrolls of Skelos).

Similarly, both the Barachan pirates and the Zingaran buccaneers can be built with the Pirate class, without need for separate PrC's. Bossonian archers gain abilities from their race that would normally be found in a PrC, so they don't really need much beyond some additional archery feats. The same can be said for Turanians or Hyrkanians, with the more militant Turanians mixing Soldier levels in with their Nomad levels.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I like the idea of getting away from PrC's and fleshing out a character purely through core classes and feats. With enough feats, you don't even need PrC's. For example, the Black Seers of Yimsha were just scholars like the Acolytes of the Black Ring or the members of any other sorcerous society in the Hyborian Age, but they learned different spells and probably took different feats. This can be constructed with the base Scholar class and appropriate feats and spells (hopefully more detail on sorcerous societies will come in Scrolls of Skelos).

Similarly, both the Barachan pirates and the Zingaran buccaneers can be built with the Pirate class, without need for separate PrC's. Bossonian archers gain abilities from their race that would normally be found in a PrC, so they don't really need much beyond some additional archery feats. The same can be said for Turanians or Hyrkanians, with the more militant Turanians mixing Soldier levels in with their Nomad levels.

Turanians should have Favoured Class: Noble or Soldier, not Nomad. The book goofed this up, IMO.

As to PrCs, I've always said that I'm not in favour of PrCs, but they are coming (Skelos has some, and I bet we see some PrC creep in future supplements), so why not provide some feedback and also, provide options for those who like PrCs but don't want to wait for Mongoose.

That said, these PrCs each have a number of useful class features that can be stripped out and turned into feats and feat chains, eliminating the need for the PrC itself. There are not enough feats in Conan for me, so that is an option I'd like to explore.

 

[Johannixx]

Turanians should have Favoured Class: Noble or Soldier, not Nomad. The book goofed this up, IMO.

I concur. The Turanians were a civilized, if decadent, society. The Hyrkanians were much more primitive, still wandering horse nomads like the Mongols. Turanians would make better Soldiers and Nobles than Nomads.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Turanians should have Favoured Class: Noble or Soldier, not Nomad. The book goofed this up, IMO.

I concur. The Turanians were a civilized, if decadent, society. The Hyrkanians were much more primitive, still wandering horse nomads like the Mongols. Turanians would make better Soldiers and Nobles than Nomads.

Also, only the Turanians worship Erlik & Tarim. The Hyrkanians worship the Everlasting Sky. As such Hyrkanians should have different benefits and requirements of worship (offering spells). Another major goof the book makes.

 

[Johannixx]

Also, only the Turanians worship Erlik & Tarim. The Hyrkanians worship the Everlasting Sky. As such Hyrkanians should have different benefits and requirements of worship (offering spells). Another major goof the book makes.

I thought that 'Everlasting Sky' bit was just from Subotai in the first movie, not REH canon. AFAIK, the Hyrkanians worshipped Erlik and Tarim just like the Turanians.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Erlik & Living Tarim
Erlik the Flame-Lord is a god of Pathenia, in northern
Hyrkania. As such, Erlik would be a minor god (and
listed among the others below) were it not for the
prophet known as Living Tarim. Tarim brought Erlik
worship from Pathenia to a group of Hyrkanian tribes
who, with the strength of their religious fervor, swept
down and founded the Turanian empire.
Erlik is a harsh god, who believes in the tempering of
the soul through trials and deprivation. His tenets, as
revealed by Tarim, forbid fornication, the
consumption of alcohol and usury. However, even
most of his priests ignore these precepts.
Clerics of Erlik (and Living Tarim) can learn Fire
spells as if they were mages, but only if they follow
the strict codes of the Revelations of Tarim. As most
do not, this ability is not widespread in the Turanian
empire. Characters wishing this benefit must pay 5
character points for the privilege, but if the precepts
are violated in any way, the ability is lost permanently.

Ancestor Worship
Primitive peoples across the Thurian continent
practice ancestor worship. There are ancestor worship
cults in the Black Kingdoms, Hyrkania, Khitai,
Nordheim and Turan.
Most ancestor worship consists of telling sagas of
ancestors on ceremonial days, and possibly using a
litany of ancestors as an introduction. However, in
some cultures (notably the Hyrkanian Erlikites and the
Nordheimr), ancestor spirits are seen as intermediaries
between living men and the gods.

Yes, the Everlasting Sky/Four Winds is in the movie
and in the pastiches, particularly in Conan The
Marauder by John Maddox Roberts. Not sure about
the REH originals. Frankly, regardless, I prefer the idea
of keeping the two cultures separated by religion and
civilization.

 

[tagnetti]

Iron Chef, Your work ethic is impressive. I like the work you have done here with the prestige classes. It requires alot of effort. Drop me a line some time if you would like to collaborate on something publishable. I can put some fancy color to your fancy ideas.

Nice work.

Tom

 

[VincentDarlage]

A lot of these are professions, and should be handled with the Profession skill.

BODYGUARDS

Anyone who guards someone is a body guard. Someone who does it all the time should take the Profession (bodyguard) skill.

BOUNTY HUNTERS
Bondsman (Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook by Bastion Press)
This is a bounty hunter.

Anyone who brings in bounties is a bounty hunter, regardless of class. At best, this is a Profession (bounty hunter) skill, with high Gather Information, Spot, and Search (among other) skills.

DIPLOMATS

Again, this is a Profession, with appropriate ranks in Diplomacy, Bluff and Sense Motive. Nobles, Scholars, and Commoners could have ranks in these.

ASSASSINS

Definitely a Profession. Anyone who kills for money. Could be a scholar or a soldier or... anyone.

SLAVERS
Slaver (Pirates! by Living Imagination, Inc.)

Profession again. No need for a seperate class. Am I the ony one out there that uses the Profession skill to turn base classes into other things?

 

[rook111]

No Vincent your not. I believe that the Prestige classes should be left at a bare minimum in Conan, if we have to have them at all. Not to knock Iron Chef (I really like a lot of his ideas), but it has become a habit of folks, both professional and nonprofessional, to create these prestige classes to simply give unique abilities that no one else who is not a member of that particular class could have.

When looking at adding a Prestige class I suggest you really look at the PRC you want to add, go back to the original 3.0 DMG discription of what a PRC was originally meant to be, and if it meets that criteria then decide again if you really need it in your campaign. A PRC should never be common, and most of them unfortunatly are.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I knew this topic would be controversial. :wink: I'm not a fan of PrC bloat either, especially not in Conan, where the base classes are so cool and multiclassing is encouraged. However, I started this thread not as an endorsement of PrCs in Conan, but as a helpful starting point for those interested in adding them, no matter how well-founded or misguided their reasons. I would personally prefer adding new core classes, myself, but not everyone is going to agree with me that that is a good idea, either (as evidenced by my Femme Fatale class). :wink:

Why I chose the PrCs I did is simple. They are, by and large, completely non-magical and generic archetypes/subarchetypes that could easily and (I hope) logically fit into Conan. Some needed extra tweaking if they add magical abilities or spellcasting progressions, but most could be imported "as is" and all we'd need to do is add Dodge/Parry/Magic bonuses, maybe up the HD depending on the nature of the PrC.

I never use the Profession skill. By never, I mean once or twice since summer 2000 when it was first published in the 3.0 D&D PHB. :roll: To me, Profession (any) is always a complete waste of skill points, as the way it is written is merely to provide income, not any occupation related special ability. Adventurers rarely, if ever, stop to earn a regular income in RPGs, and Conan, with its emphasis on action and constantly losing your loot, makes it even less likely. If one were to incorporate a simple, standardized system into Profession (working like a Bardic Knowledge check, perhaps, with a set series of DCs), then I could see it being useful. However, it would be more like a feat than a skill then. It would also take up half the book trying to describe what each Profession's special abilities were.

I don't like the way Conan got rid of the Expert, though I wasn't happy with the class in D&D. Conan needs a Merchant class (not PrC). Most merchants are not nobles or any of the other classes, IMO. From the merchant could be built a number of useful occupation related special abilities covering specialized merchants such as slavers, smugglers, fences; thieves are too combat focused to do this, which is the problem I had with them in D&D whenever I wanted to make a non-combat specialized rogue.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I never use the Profession skill. To me, Profession (any) is always a complete waste of skill points, as the way it is written is merely to provide income, not any occupation related special ability. Adventurers rarely, if ever, stop to earn a regular income in RPGs, and Conan, with its emphasis on action and constantly losing your loot, makes it even less likely.

That is all it needs to do for an NPC merchant/slaver/prostitute/etc. It shows they can derive income for their activities. Certainly it is unnecessary for a PC, but most NPC's should use it.

I don't like the way Conan got rid of the Expert, though I wasn't happy with the class in D&D. Conan needs a Merchant class (not PrC). Most merchants are not nobles or any of the other classes, IMO. From the merchant could be built a number of useful occupation related special abilities covering specialized merchants such as slavers, smugglers, fences;.

I have found the expert class to be unnecessary in Conan. I have rolled up NPC merchants, loggers, blacksmiths, healers, slavers, dancers, singers, farmers, prostitutes, bartenders all with the commoner class, using Skill Focus type feats and the Profession skill in terms of service industry types and Craft skills for the more product oriented industries (such as blacksmiths).

I don't see the need for a Merchant class. A merchant is just somebody of any class who buys and sells things. Most of them are just commoners with a knack for mercantilism. Give him the appropriate feats, skills and stats, and he is a merchant, regardless of class.

 

[slaughterj]

I never use the Profession skill. By never, I mean once or twice since summer 2000 when it was first published in the 3.0 D&D PHB. :roll: To me, Profession (any) is always a complete waste of skill points, as the way it is written is merely to provide income, not any occupation related special ability. Adventurers rarely, if ever, stop to earn a regular income in RPGs, and Conan, with its emphasis on action and constantly losing your loot, makes it even less likely. If one were to incorporate a simple, standardized system into Profession (working like a Bardic Knowledge check, perhaps, with a set series of DCs), then I could see it being useful. However, it would be more like a feat than a skill then. It would also take up half the book trying to describe what each Profession's special abilities were.

I understand your issue with the Profession skill, it seems like a carry-over from the Hero system to D&D, where you have both a Profession skill and a Knowledge skill, and then also specific skills to do something, e.g.:

Profession: Merchant, Knowledge: Trading, Other Skill(s): Diplomacy

or

Profession: Healer, Knowledge: Healing, Other Skill(s): Heal

or

Profession: Thief, Knowledge: Thieving, Other Skills: Climbing, Open Locks, Disable Device, Stealth, Hide

One could spend a bunch of points on "nothing" to some extent. That's why I let people make rolls against their Profession and/or Knowledge skills liberally, to enable their usefulness, even if it isn't exactly on target with the skill and the purpose of the skill. For instance, with Profession: Merchant, I might allow a roll to help find a good location to trade one's wares, and would consider it complementary/synergistic for helping Diplomacy rolls when doing the actual trading (even the sale of stolen goods), as that person knows what they are doing better than someone with a general Diplomacy ability. Sometimes it takes creative players to come up with uses for their skills like these, and they will tend to focus on the clearly useful ones like Spot and Stealth.

 

[Iron_Chef]

One could spend a bunch of points on "nothing" to some extent. That's why I let people make rolls against their Profession and/or Knowledge skills liberally, to enable their usefulness, even if it isn't exactly on target with the skill and the purpose of the skill. For instance, with Profession: Merchant, I might allow a roll to help find a good location to trade one's wares, and would consider it complementary/synergistic for helping Diplomacy rolls when doing the actual trading (even the sale of stolen goods), as that person knows what they are doing better than someone with a general Diplomacy ability. Sometimes it takes creative players to come up with uses for their skills like these, and they will tend to focus on the clearly useful ones like Spot and Stealth.

Good points. The problem is I would prefer a standardized system of specific benefits granted by "x number of ranks" to prevent arguments, to clearly show the worth of the skill to PCs (as well as show what NPCs can do for/against them).

 

[Anonymous]

I think a merchant class wouldn't have been bad. The old Chivalry and Sorcery game had a class (more or less) called "merchant adventurer" which did nicely for those who led caravans across the continent, sailors and travelling entertainers. All three types were not primarily fighter or thieves but had more skill, combat chops, and knowledge than townsmen and farmers.

So, a class for those who earn their living honestly, do a lot of travelling and occasionally have to fight off thieves and raiders seems entirely appropriate to me too.

 

[Mayhem]

Hmm - it might have been nice to see an extra 2 NPC classes.

Then you could have one for manual labour types (your basic peasents and labourers), one for your skilled craftsmen and artisans (from jewellers to Blacksmiths) and one for your "white collar" workers who rely on people skills and intelligence (Merchants, scribes, innkeepers).

After all, there ought to be a significant difference in the abilities available to somebody who spends all day, every day plowing fields, somebody who crafts fine pottery, and somebody who works as a money-counter in the kings treasury.

*****

HOWEVER:

Does it really matter that much? How often will it matter, compared to the might of the PCS, whether a Ploughman gets more HP per level than a tallyman? And if it does matter, just make sure your Commoner (Ploughman) has a higher CON than your commoner (Merchant)

Since these non-adventuring types should generally be pretty low level, the diferences in skill levels, BAB, HP, saves etc will be trivial compared to the amount they get from their base Ability score modifiers.

*****

And if you want a Merchant or similar to be exceptionally good at his job, give him scholar levels, take feats suitable for a merchant instead of sorcery styles, and plow all those lovely skill points into merchant appropriate skills.

Or, give them levels in the most appropriate PC class, but drop some or all of the special abilities. Thief will work perfectly well for dancing girl, bawd or prostitute, if you drop the special abilities. Nomad, treated similarly, can work perfectly well for caravan master. Pirate, likewise, for honest sea captains.

 

[VincentDarlage]

That's why I let people make rolls against their Profession and/or Knowledge skills liberally, to enable their usefulness, even if it isn't exactly on target with the skill and the purpose of the skill. For instance, with Profession: Merchant, I might allow a roll to help find a good location to trade one's wares, and would consider it complementary/synergistic for helping Diplomacy rolls when doing the actual trading (even the sale of stolen goods), as that person knows what they are doing better than someone with a general Diplomacy ability. Sometimes it takes creative players to come up with uses for their skills like these, and they will tend to focus on the clearly useful ones like Spot and Stealth.

I do the same things. It is a useful skill in my campaigns.

 

[Phil]

To me, Profession (any) is always a complete waste of skill points, as the way it is written is merely to provide income, not any occupation related special ability. Adventurers rarely, if ever, stop to earn a regular income in RPGs

I agree that adventurers rarely use Profession as a skill - but that doesn't mean that no-one else in the world does - ie. the healers, politians, scribes etc - they would all have ranks in this skill.

Having said that, I agree that it seems a tad artifical using a skill role to make money when it is likely that other skills are involved - such as Craft rolls for bakers etc. However, you don't want to spend days making craft rolls for Jo Bloggs the baker, instead you make a Profession check to cover a longer period of time. Personally, these skills should probably have been combined in some way but there are differences in making a single item (Craft) and 'mass producing' (Profession) to sell to the public.

However, IMCs to improve the usefulness of the Profession Skill I house rule that if you have 5 ranks in a Profession skill then you gain a +2 synergy bonnus to any checks that would relate to that profession.

So, if you have Jo Bloggs the Baker - he has Craft (Baking) (5 ranks) and Profession (Baker) (5 ranks). If it is important that Jo the baker is attempting to make a single loaf of bread to give to the adventurers then he makes a Craft roll (with a +2 bonus due to Profession (Baker)). If instead you need to know how much money Jo makes over a period of time then you make a Profession roll instead.

Just my take on the Profession rules