Communication/Size limits on a Polity

[Golan2072]

What is the size limit of a Traveller interstellar polity, based on communication times? In my Outer Veil setting I've used 1-Jump distance for the Core, 3-Jump distance for the intermediate area, 5-Jump distance for a frontier and 8-Jump distance for the extreme frontier (the eponymous "Outer Veil"). What do you think?

Also, what travel times did historical Age-of-Sail polities deal with? How much time did it take to get from Spain to the Philippines? From England to Australia? Or, in the much older Roman Empire, from Rome to Judea, Britannia or Egypt?

 

[Condottiere]

1. The Romans built roads, so infrastructure impacts speed of communications.

2. You also have two different factors, speed of communications through fast ships and couriers with horses stabled every twenty miles or so, and where regional authorities can report events and wait for instructions or advise, if any, and the central authorities' ability to react in time. Failure to do so, usually indicates the extent of that Empire.

 

[locarno24]

The clipper routes - about the fastest commercial/courier sailing ships to be in standard service - used to make the journey to/from australia in about 40-70 days (depending on direction of travel and load).

If you work on about a month of travel, that makes fair sense to me. Ultimately, there is no limit to the size of a Traveller polity, merely how it can be structured. The Imperium is stratified because you need delegated authority to deal with things at the right location. You have planetary authorities, you have fleet admiralty organised at a subsector and sector level (and hence another trade and territorial security-focused level of nobility there) , and then legal and policy levels above them.

Certainly a 'closely managed' society like the modern world would break down or at least have to change radically with more than....hmm...say 4 jumps? Waiting two months for any response from a central authority (no matter how rapid the turnaround at the far end) makes running any sort of centralised control totally and completely impractical.

In some ways this is a classic problem with modern technology. The minister, or CEO, or whatever, can be involved in every important decision, even if it's occuring in another city or even another country. A lot of them don't learn to delegate.

 

[Condottiere]

Those boys can’t hit an outhouse without my permission.

- Lyndon B. Johnson

 

[phavoc]

What is the size limit of a Traveller interstellar polity, based on communication times? In my Outer Veil setting I've used 1-Jump distance for the Core, 3-Jump distance for the intermediate area, 5-Jump distance for a frontier and 8-Jump distance for the extreme frontier (the eponymous "Outer Veil"). What do you think?

It can take six months or more for communications to travel from the Imperial capital to the outskirts of the Imperium. So you have to figure it's about a year or so round-trip. That's why the Imperium is set up as a sort of self-governing polity. 8 weeks to the frontier (assuming you only do jump-1) is pretty short.

Also, what travel times did historical Age-of-Sail polities deal with? How much time did it take to get from Spain to the Philippines? From England to Australia? Or, in the much older Roman Empire, from Rome to Judea, Britannia or Egypt?[/quote]

It used to take about 60 days to get a message from Rome to Alexandria, Egypt in the good ol Roman days. The Romans had a pretty fast network for important messages. You can read more about the Roman communication system here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_publicus

"In the days of sail, if you went to work for the East India Company you could expect to return home perhaps once before retirement; it was customary to grant a three-year furlough in mid-career. The voyage from England to India via the Cape of Good Hope took six months at least, and you might have another three or four months of traveling to do before reaching your final destination. Replies to letters, therefore, could well take over a year and a half to receive. " - http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/marshall-east.html

 

[Golan2072]

What is the size limit of a Traveller interstellar polity, based on communication times? In my Outer Veil setting I've used 1-Jump distance for the Core, 3-Jump distance for the intermediate area, 5-Jump distance for a frontier and 8-Jump distance for the extreme frontier (the eponymous "Outer Veil"). What do you think?

It can take six months or more for communications to travel from the Imperial capital to the outskirts of the Imperium. So you have to figure it's about a year or so round-trip. That's why the Imperium is set up as a sort of self-governing polity. 8 weeks to the frontier (assuming you only do jump-1) is pretty short.

On the other hand, it fits the Roman times you've given pretty well, and is still WAY longer than what it took to get messages across the continental U.S. before the advent of telegraph and continental rail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_express

 

[Condottiere]

In the end, it comes down to the ability of the central authority to control events on the borders, whether directly or by proxy.