Combat maneuvers too common?

[Mixster]

Not to mention the fact that a heavier bow will push such an arrow further into the tissue of your target, giving much worse penalties.

I know that 40% might seem like a lot, And it probably is, but I'd find 10% to be ridiculously low to have a longbow arrow protruding from somewhere in your body and still trying to fight. I'd at least administer a 20% penalty, perhaps even a 30% penalty.

Anyway the rules go either way, because the standard rules would apply a -40% penalty, but this may be counteracted by a parenthesis.

 

[DamonJynx]

...because the standard rules would apply a -40% penalty, but this may be counteracted by a parenthesis.

I understand where you are coming from, but I will have to agree to disagree with you on the above. The "standard rules" clearly state that piercing weapons impose a penalty based on their size. The longbow is not the piercing weapon, the arrow is and the example (in brackets) clearly shows this.

When you start making all kinds of situational modifiers for this type of thing, where do you stop? OK, I'm shot with a longbow at long range, surely the velocity of the missile is now decreased, lessening it's impact, which should reduce the penalty for being impaled. At close range (or closer) by using modifiers, the penalty would be increased. It is a game, not an exercise in mathematics. When people try to over rationalise or try for too much realism, IMO, it creates layers of complexity that are simply not needed.

 

[Mixster]

The longbow is not the piercing weapon, the arrow is and the example (in brackets) clearly shows this.

I believe this is where we disagree, I'd say something that fires a missile is the weapon, and the missile is just that. The missile.
I wouldn't consider a 7.62-bullet a weapon, but an AK47 I would. Same goes for bows and arrows. The size of the weapon is H, it imposes a -40% penalty.

When you start making all kinds of situational modifiers for this type of thing, where do you stop? OK, I'm shot with a longbow at long range, surely the velocity of the missile is now decreased, lessening it's impact, which should reduce the penalty for being impaled. At close range (or closer) by using modifiers, the penalty would be increased. It is a game, not an exercise in mathematics. When people try to over rationalise or try for too much realism, IMO, it creates layers of complexity that are simply not needed.

I agree, luckily just taking the Size of the weapon solves this, so a short bow is L, a longbow is H and an arbalest is E. That corresponds to a -30% ; -40% and a -50% penalty.

Either way, the argument that using impale as a valuable debuff on range still stands, even just a -10% cumulative penalty is pretty useful.

 

[rust]

I agree, luckily just taking the Size of the weapon solves this, so a short bow is L, a longbow is H and an arbalest is E. That corresponds to a -30% ; -40% and a -50% penalty.

Well, this way the penalty for an arrow would be the same as
the penalty for a lance (Size H), which I find less than convin-
cing ... :wink:

 

[DamonJynx]

I believe this is where we disagree, I'd say something that fires a missile is the weapon, and the missile is just that. The missile.
I wouldn't consider a 7.62-bullet a weapon, but an AK47 I would. Same goes for bows and arrows. The size of the weapon is H, it imposes a -40% penalty.


I agree, luckily just taking the Size of the weapon solves this, so a short bow is L, a longbow is H and an arbalest is E. That corresponds to a -30% ; -40% and a -50% penalty.

Either way, the argument that using impale as a valuable debuff on range still stands, even just a -10% cumulative penalty is pretty useful.

You can't go by the size of the weapon to determine the Impale penalty, you need to go by the size of the missile. The weapon determines the missiles penetrative power and initial damage - nothing more. As Rust points out above there is a significant difference between functioning with an arrow in your arm and a Lance or Javelin regardless of how the arrow got stuck into you!

Also, an arrow can be used as a weapon if desperate, albeit a fairly ineffectual one. The same cannot be said of bullets.

With due respect and not being an expert in ballistics, I would suggest that bullets regardless of caliber be treated as small - so when Impaled by a firearm the penalty would be -10%. The initial damage is quite a different issue as are situational modifiers for trying to remove bullets which are significantly more difficult to remove than an arrow or similar.

Notwithstanding, I would rule that any missile attack that causes a major wound would only inflict the Impale penalty (all other benefits of the Impale CM stand) if the target made the successful Resistance roll. On a fail, they are taken out of combat anyway and if the location struck is a limb it has probably been severed which means there is nothing left to Impale!

 

[superc0ntra]

Resurrecting this thread since I have the same perceived problem as the thread starter.
Every missile hit is an impale, every melee hit goes to the least armored vital body part etc.

I'm thinking about reviving the old "special" hits from RQ3 or something like that, requiring the success to be under 25% or maybe even 50% of your skill in order to get a combat maneuver.

Are there any house rules out there?

 

[Captain Brann]

Resurrecting this thread since I have the same perceived problem as the thread starter.
Every missile hit is an impale, every melee hit goes to the least armored vital body part etc.

I'm thinking about reviving the old "special" hits from RQ3 or something like that, requiring the success to be under 25% or maybe even 50% of your skill in order to get a combat maneuver.

Are there any house rules out there?

Missiles impaling seems right to me, I allow evade and parry only if you are aware of the attack. Perception roll unless they are right in front of you.

Nothing wrong with an attack choosing location. Again you need to try to avoid the hit and its a reason why people wear full armor. If I was fighting someone with armor everywhere except one leg then I would aim for that leg. However remember if you always do the same thing your enemies will work that out and gain an advantage.

 

[DamonJynx]

Missiles impaling seems right to me, I allow evade and parry only if you are aware of the attack. Perception roll unless they are right in front of you.

Nothing wrong with an attack choosing location. Again you need to try to avoid the hit and its a reason why people wear full armor. If I was fighting someone with armor everywhere except one leg then I would aim for that leg. However remember if you always do the same thing your enemies will work that out and gain an advantage.

+1. Don't forget the players enemies, once the players have gained a reputation, will utilise the same tactics and as Brann says, get situational modifiers for repeated use of CM's - at least they should!