Combat in Traveller: some tactical principles

[Alqualonde]

One of the main difference between D&D and Traveller is that the PC are not world-shattering super heroes that are destined to kill dragons and kick Orcus' butt. Just ordinary heroes : a more or less average joe thrown in an exceptional situation.
Taking on a couple of goons, will be dangerous. Like in real life, getting shot, even once, is not an option. You might not die outright, but it might leave you unable to keep fighting or moving (an easy target for your opponents).
So you'll need to be more tactical, choose when & where to fight, use cover, bring friends, etc...
I guess your first fight was one of the worst kind (at least in Traveller), point-blank fight against a fanatic with a blade. Your opponent was fighting to the death and had the range advantage on you.

I remember the 1st time I played Twilight 2000. By the end of the scenario, half of our unit was dead and only 1 character was unhurt (ironically it was the medic). And we had the element of surprise, were attacking by night in winter & had recon the area beforehand.

 

[Vormaerin]

I'm really new to traveller, and ended up with a 1v1 encounter. Neither of us had armor. He had a dagger and I had a stunner. It took me 3 rounds to get him knocked down, and had I rolled 1 damage less, his next turn would have most likely knocked me down. With the scene, it would have been pretty hard to explain away some form of survival for me. I'm still struggling to learn the mechanics, so part of it can be blamed on that.

The planet this happened on just happened to be a law level 9 planet. It's my understanding that as a result of that, all firearms and almost all armor are banned, so I can't sport my firearms or even my cloth armor. How do I work around this? Without getting into a lot of details on the mission and everything, there is a good chance I will end up in a fight in a building against one or more opponents. With the law level restriction, I have no idea how to overcome this.

I come from other ttrpgs such as D&D and pathfinder, so I have already learned I am not prepared for the brutality of Traveller. I really enjoy combat, even when challenging, but if a single opponent armed with a dagger can nearly kill me and only by the skin of my teeth I survive, I don't know that there's going to be much enjoyment here for me. I don't need to wade through a flood of goblins, but surely taking on a couple of goons should be within reason? It is a game after all.

Ideally, get good at Melee (Unarmed) so you can parry to reduce his chance to hit. Also, it is important to notice that Grappling is extremely effective in Traveller if you are better than the other guy, since it is a skill vs skill roll off. And if you win, you can disarm knifeboy. If you really win, you can take his knife. These are your options if your Melee (Unarmed) beats his Melee (Unarmed) roll:



But, yeah, if he's armed and you aren't, it is not good for you and you need to be a lot better than he is. Which any martial artist will tell you.

 

[Vormaerin]

Oh, and keep in mind that an improvised weapon like a chair is 2D-2. That's a bit better than punching someone and uses the same skill.

Re-reading your post, I'm a bit surprised you nearly lost if you had a stunner. Even the lowest TL version should wreck an unarmored opponent since it'll disable a guy with an even slightly above average hit. The TL 10 or TL 12 versions will one shot almost anyone. But I guess if you roll badly, you roll badly. A stunner will stun once you exceed the target's END, whereas stabby things need to reduce 2 stats to 0 to render unconscious.

 

[alex_greene]

Combat needs to have Conditions other than reducing characteristics.
By the way, if your END is reduced by a wound, that's your END, and your END DM, for the rest of the fight. You don't have Hit Points - the damage comes out of your characteristics.
But yeah, Conditions. I'm thinking Conditions such as Prone (need a full Significant Action to get back up), Stunned (can't fight), Unconscious (out of combat), Blinded (can't fight), Pinned (can't move, only struggle with STR versus pinning opponent's Melee (Unarmed), Thrown 1D metres (lands and is Prone), Disarmed (loses weapon), and Winded (fatigued).
And all you need is to win that opposed combat roll (usually Melee (Unarmed)), or achieve a higher Effect if your character and your opponent both win that roll.
Check the Grapple rules. That includes choke holds, sleeper holds, and holding someone still long enough for the chloroform in the rag to do its thing.

 

[Saladman]

With the scene, it would have been pretty hard to explain away some form of survival for me.

Yes.

But there's a sliver of hope people miss if they're only thinking about winning. Characters are dead at 3 stats at 0, unconscious at 2 stats at 0. So there is a down and out but not dead condition. If your side wins, they should be getting you medical care. If your side loses that's worse, but in civilization you might still justify medical care.

It's one reason I prefer staying away from the really high damage weapons. More on the GM side, but it makes more sense to stay away from them on the GM side if the players aren't always showing up with PGMPs. Fewer one shot kills.

But this is where physical stats really matter. If you've got a 2 or 3 in the mix you're a lot easier to head shot than all 7s. At law level 9 in civilization conceivably a knife could have dropped you, the assassin could have run, and you still could have woken up with a medical bill and a local constable asking you what the story was. But I don't know your stats or the margin you had.

 

[metlk]

Oh, and keep in mind that an improvised weapon like a chair is 2D-2. That's a bit better than punching someone and uses the same skill.

Re-reading your post, I'm a bit surprised you nearly lost if you had a stunner. Even the lowest TL version should wreck an unarmored opponent since it'll disable a guy with an even slightly above average hit. The TL 10 or TL 12 versions will one shot almost anyone. But I guess if you roll badly, you roll badly. A stunner will stun once you exceed the target's END, whereas stabby things need to reduce 2 stats to 0 to render unconscious.

This is where my inexperience with Traveller hurts me. I didn't know a stunner knocks them out at endurance loss. Yeah I would have won on at the very least my second hit if not my first.

Bear in mind, I'm also trying to DM this solo, to both learn the game and because I love the setting. I've never ran a game before, so I have tons of learning.

I will say my largest issue with the game is the idea that combat should be avoided at all costs. I think someone suggested people should run away from each other. For a game, that's absolutely absurd unless there is a compelling reason to do so (severely outnumbered, overpowered, etc.). And if the prevailing attitude for any combat encounter is going to be "git gud" or run away, then I'll probably just run away. From Traveller.

It would seem though just having a better understanding of the systems will have a significant impact on the outcome, and I just drew a really rough spot to be in. I didn't know about the grapple rules. Does my DEX affect his to-hit roll, or do I have to specify a dodge or parry? Or both? I have a Dex12, and entirely forgot about the Parry rule.

 

[Arkathan]

Yeah my guys would prefer to go through stun grenades like they are candy... which is why I use a scatter die for misses so they may bounce back at them.

 

[ottarrus]

OK, Army veteran here.
The single largest problem I've noticed with most modern and sci-fi game players is the ignorance about using cover. Many have the fantasy game conceit of 'I'll just take the damage on the armor and keep blasting'.
Like twin children of different genders, cover and concealment are related but definitely not the same. Both block or interfere with direct observation, but cover can block incoming fire. This a vitally important distinction.
For every armor ever devised, there is a weapon specifically designed to defeat it. No matter how well armored, player characters should never forget that. Even if you're wearing Combat Armor and the other guys are armed with carbines, all it takes is for one guy to pop up with grenade launcher and a HEAP grenade to ruin your whole day.

What's more, more referees need to TEACH the players that tactics count in a sci-fi game just as much as they do in a fantasy game. Using cover, concealment, the talents of each character, and teaching the important skill of Knowing When To Run is something every ref should be willing to teach his players. Combat in Traveller is a deadly thing. Other game systems are more deadly [I tell peeps in a Legend of the Five Rings game, whose combat system can be described as vicious, 'If the katana comes out, somebody WILL die and there WILL be consequences. Choose wisely'] but Traveller doesn't pull many punches. And Traveller doesn't have any Cure Wounds spells. While med-packs and medical skill will help, there is no magical technology that'll automatically put you back in the fight. Wound require first aid, surgery, and post operative healing.

 

[ottarrus]

Combat needs to have Conditions other than reducing characteristics.
By the way, if your END is reduced by a wound, that's your END, and your END DM, for the rest of the fight. You don't have Hit Points - the damage comes out of your characteristics.
But yeah, Conditions. I'm thinking Conditions such as Prone (need a full Significant Action to get back up), Stunned (can't fight), Unconscious (out of combat), Blinded (can't fight), Pinned (can't move, only struggle with STR versus pinning opponent's Melee (Unarmed), Thrown 1D metres (lands and is Prone), Disarmed (loses weapon), and Winded (fatigued).
And all you need is to win that opposed combat roll (usually Melee (Unarmed)), or achieve a higher Effect if your character and your opponent both win that roll.
Check the Grapple rules. That includes choke holds, sleeper holds, and holding someone still long enough for the chloroform in the rag to do its thing.

I already apply much of these to combat checks.
But then, most of my gamer friends are veterans so it's not hard for them to grasp.

 

[Vormaerin]

This is where my inexperience with Traveller hurts me. I didn't know a stunner knocks them out at endurance loss. Yeah I would have won on at the very least my second hit if not my first.

Bear in mind, I'm also trying to DM this solo, to both learn the game and because I love the setting. I've never ran a game before, so I have tons of learning.

I will say my largest issue with the game is the idea that combat should be avoided at all costs. I think someone suggested people should run away from each other. For a game, that's absolutely absurd unless there is a compelling reason to do so (severely outnumbered, overpowered, etc.). And if the prevailing attitude for any combat encounter is going to be "git gud" or run away, then I'll probably just run away. From Traveller.

It would seem though just having a better understanding of the systems will have a significant impact on the outcome, and I just drew a really rough spot to be in. I didn't know about the grapple rules. Does my DEX affect his to-hit roll, or do I have to specify a dodge or parry? Or both? I have a Dex12, and entirely forgot about the Parry rule.

All Skill rolls, including combat ones, add a relevant stat to the roll. For Gun Combat (Energy Weapons), which is the relevant skill for a stunner, that stat is DEX. So, yes, your Dex would have added +2 to your to hit roll. For melee combat, the option is DEX or STR.

For defensive purposes, you have REACTIONS. The standard reaction is DODGE. If you declare a Dodge, then the better of your DEX bonus or your Athletics skill is subtracted from your opponent's attack, but you take a -1 on your next action. If you are in melee, you can use your Melee combat skill to Parry instead of Dodge, but it otherwise works the same. Another defensive reaction is "Dive for Cover". That's an automatic -2 to their attack and may give you bonus armor if what you dive behind is worth anything.

Traveller combat is not "avoid at all costs". But it is not modeled on action heroics. It is still safer than real life, but not by as much as most games. If your character is unarmored and not very good at the combat skills, they shouldn't get in combat if they can avoid it. If you do get in combat, you should be looking to fight as unfair as you can, because combat does hurt. And you don't heal fast. Use cover, ambush, improvise weapons, run away, whatever it takes to give yourself an advantage.

The important thing about Traveller and fighting is that the game isn't about fighting, so it does not make sure you are good at it. You can't be bad at combat in D&D. You absolutely can in Traveller. The game is designed to model all kinds of sci fi adventures, not just pulp action.

Your character has a 12 Dex, so they are going to be pretty good at combat if they have any skills because +2 is pretty substantial on a 2d6 roll. But they should still be thinking "How can I take this guy out without giving him a chance to take me out". So having armor, dodging, taking cover, amubshing, whatever.

 

[metlk]

In my area, I haven't found a single person in a 60 mile radius that has even heard of Traveller. Not a player, not a DM, not even the various local tabletop game stores. Yet, somehow, this is one of the oldest TTRPG systems out there. I had hoped to bring it to my area, and get some strong groups going. I think I'll pass. "I almost got in four firefights today, but ran away from every one of them! That was fun!" Yeah... not so much.

 

[Condottiere]

It is circumstantial.

Being mercenaries, reward is tempered by risk, and you can try to hire someone else to be in front of you.

 

[metlk]

It is circumstantial.

Being mercenaries, reward is tempered by risk, and you can try to hire someone else to be in front of you.

This will probably be what we do. I'm not going to just blunder into a stronghold of bad guys and ask the dude to surrender without having a team to back me up. But the way everyone here talks, I either spend all of my profits on overwhelming manpower, or tuck my tail between my legs and whimper off. The overwhelming manpower option at least sounds more entertaining.

 

[Condottiere]

It is a sandbox.

You can try to infiltrate, establish an escape route with one team, while carrying out the mission with the other.

 

[NOLATrav]

It’s the epitome of “Don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.”

As you learn the details of the system it won’t be so fight or flight and will become much more interesting.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Saladman]

Metlk, I feel like combat deadliness, while real compared to some games, is being oversold here somewhat. Armor + knowing your offensive options + using the full range of dodge, dive for cover, use cover in the first place + recovering your wounded + the GM making good choices about how to equip the opposition can all result in winnable combats.

You do need to teach a new group the system though. Often that's a doesn't-count practice combat immediately after character creation. That shows the potential deadliness, but also gives you time to show how reactions and cover work.

Then, if you are wounded, medical clinic + downtime is the equivalent of casting healing magic in D&D. You can go from combat to combat, but the pace of it is different. Days instead of minutes.

And remember that fights in civilization may be stunner tag or just barroom brawl melees rather than gun-fu shoot-outs, and that's normally to both sides' benefit. Fights outside civilization might be alien pouncers that can be driven off, or carnivorous vine monsters versus flamethrowers, rather than only against thugs/"goblins."

And there are the combat applications of skills like Tactics (initiative bonus to go first) and Leadership (adding Boons to your teammates' rolls). This you need a group for, and one or more need to have rolled in military careers, but if you're running a combat heavy game that's likely the case. And if

It sounds like your example combat had the perfect storm of no-one to teach the game, missing out on concealable armor, missing how stunners work, and missing out on all your own bonuses. Ideally that's not how a campaign would go.

All that said, I've had hits and misses introducing Traveller to D&D players specifically. Some take to it very quickly, some keep trying to play it like its D&D, and get frustrated. But this problem isn't unique to Traveller, I saw the same problem with D&D players trying Savage Worlds (which is otherwise less deadly than Traveller but has a unique way of encouraging you not to just attack every round, to try tricks instead).

Ironically I've had a better success rate running Traveller and Savage Worlds for completely new roleplayers, albeit with a smaller sample size. They don't have the expectation that playing it like D&D tactically will result in the same outcome, so they take the game more for what it is, and get more wins.

"I almost got in four firefights today, but ran away from every one of them! That was fun!"

Or - got the drop on one with Recon, Tactics and Leadership and mowed them down, bluffed one into backing down with Deception, someone took a hit in the third but the group also dropped an enemy and a player thought to take that opportunity to try Persuade or Diplomat to let both sides recover their wounded and withdraw, and the fourth was a barroom brawl in the starport where anyone who drew a firearm first would lose by winning.

Admittedly you need a group that learns the game for that, but it can be done. In fact its glorious when it comes together.

 

[Arkathan]

This will probably be what we do. I'm not going to just blunder into a stronghold of bad guys and ask the dude to surrender without having a team to back me up. But the way everyone here talks, I either spend all of my profits on overwhelming manpower, or tuck my tail between my legs and whimper off. The overwhelming manpower option at least sounds more entertaining.

When learning or teaching a combat system, it is often useful to pretend they are in a VR simulation.
Whether a ground, vehicle or space combat.
This way, they and you can learn the value of cover without endangering the characters.
Think buddies getting tickets to high tech laser tag or paintball for someone's birthday when they meet up in the first session, as an in-game excuse to safely explore new rules. This could even be months or years back in the lives of the players, if you need to start them off with an existential crisis.

 

[Vormaerin]

In my area, I haven't found a single person in a 60 mile radius that has even heard of Traveller. Not a player, not a DM, not even the various local tabletop game stores. Yet, somehow, this is one of the oldest TTRPG systems out there. I had hoped to bring it to my area, and get some strong groups going. I think I'll pass. "I almost got in four firefights today, but ran away from every one of them! That was fun!" Yeah... not so much.

Who said that? It is not a game where you assume that combat is the normal activity. So, yeah, if you want a wargame, this isn't it. Or, rather, it is a wargame with a high casualty rate closer to real war than action movies.

But..it entirely possible to have fights and have fights regularly. But you have to actually prepare for them. The game does not automatically level up your combat ability just because you exist.

Your first fight went poorly because
1) You didn't know about how to use defensive moves
2) You didn't know the rules for the weapon you were using, so it was less effective than it should have been
3) You did not have protective gear that you could have had, because you misinterpreted what "armor" means in the law level
4) You overlooked tactical options you may have had, like disarming your foe and using cover.

This is entirely normal because you are new to the system. Part of the nature of being new to a system is not knowing all the rules.

You are asking questions. That's great! We are trying to answer them.

But part of the answer is learning your options and part of the answer is "don't treat this like a combat first game". Combat is an option you will take when necessary. It is not the default action of the game. As I said above, combat is softer than real life, but it is nowhere near as soft as heroic fantasy games. Part of the answer is not to treat every fight as a fight to the death because, again, not heroic fantasy. Not everyone who does fight you wants to kill you, either. In D&D, losing a fight often means you are dead. In Traveller, it usually means you are unconscious and either tossed in the alley or captured or some other thing that furthers the adventure, just in a different way than you planned.

It is hard to get killed in Traveller unless you start playing with automatic weapons or just stand in the open without any protection and fight to the last. But if you play with John Wick style gaming (disguised armored clothing, pistols, knives, and fists) all day long if you learn how to take defensive reactions, use cover, and the like.

But you can also play Slippery Jim DeGriz and avoid fights like the plague. The rules support both playstyles.

 

[CordwainerFish]

You may have seen the Marine Rules for Gunfights gag - the one that starts with "bring a gun; bring more than one gun; bring all of your friends who have guns"? That's the mindset to have.

Never fight fair. If you're in a fair fight, you've screwed up.