Combat Implant Question

[Exwrestler]

I have been following the cybertech thread and it made me think of a question.

Could one of you old hat types enlighten me as to why the Marines don't use Combat Implants?

 

[AKAramis]

Because they don't exist in CT nor MT, and there's rampant cyber-paranoia in TNE's setting; T4 doesn't have skill chips, either.

 

[Exwrestler]

Okay. I was just curious if there was a Traveler specific reason why the Army used Combat Implants and the Marines do not.

 

[pasuuli]

Okay. I was just curious if there was a Traveler specific reason why the Army used Combat Implants and the Marines do not.

It sounds like he didn't really answer your question. Maybe the oversight was unintended?

 

[far-trader]

I think maybe it was answered, in a way. The old guard don't have a clue why because it's totally new territory for Traveller.

It is close to a theme I used in my old Traveller games though, replacing the RTT Combat Implants with CT Combat Drug.

In my games the Imperial Army made wide use of Combat Drug. It made the troops that much more efficient with far less investment than training and equipment. The IA is a huge force in my game compared to the Imperial Marines. The IM are the cream of the recruitment crop, extensively trained, superiorly equipped, but low in numbers. The IM do not use Combat Drug because they don't need it and of course it has side effects over the long term that actually lessen the effectiveness among other problems. These long term effects wouldn't develop in a IA trooper during their effective career, usually. They would however during a IM career.

Maybe the same reason could be applied to the Combat Implants in RTT? Or maybe the designers have a better story cooked up already

 

[AKAramis]

I think maybe it was answered, in a way. The old guard don't have a clue why because it's totally new territory for Traveller.

It is close to a theme I used in my old Traveller games though, replacing the RTT Combat Implants with CT Combat Drug.

In my games the Imperial Army made wide use of Combat Drug. It made the troops that much more efficient with far less investment than training and equipment. The IA is a huge force in my game compared to the Imperial Marines. The IM are the cream of the recruitment crop, extensively trained, superiorly equipped, but low in numbers. The IM do not use Combat Drug because they don't need it and of course it has side effects over the long term that actually lessen the effectiveness among other problems. These long term effects wouldn't develop in a IA trooper during their effective career, usually. They would however during a IM career.

Maybe the same reason could be applied to the Combat Implants in RTT? Or maybe the designers have a better story cooked up already

I'll give you why MTU lacks frequent implants for spacers: radiation exposure.

Microprocessors are extremely radiation intolerant, especially alpha, beta, gamma-ray, and x-ray. (Hell, most of the Radio frequencies, really.)

Implanted microprocessors are no less subject to this, and tend to be on the smallish side, where exposure is more significant.

You can faraday cage against gamma and x-ray. Alpha and beta are different issues, and not even issues dirtside (usually). You need special protections against the particulates; one is shieldable with almost nothing, and the other isn't easily shielded, but I can't recall which.

Now, larger units can be both overbuilt and shielded, but implants far less so.

Marines, even tho they often fight on the ground, can't afford to have implants go south mid-op, and that's precisely when they have the most exposure.

Now, also, in MT, we get issues with the Society for the Sovereignty of Man over Machine (SSMM), and large chunks of the imperium consider cyborging criminal; some consider sufficient amounts to render one property.

 

[Deniable]

Both alpha and beta are easy to block. IIRC, thick paper for one and tin-foil for the other should do it.

The huge problem for Marines is that they run around outside the ship in nothing but vacc-suits or battle-dress. No shielding against the harder radiation would make implants a problem for anyone planning EVA.

 

[far-trader]

I kind of like that idea aramis, feels like there might be some problems with it but it's worth considering.

One problem, and this relates to Deniable's reply too, Traveller seems to postulate magic radiation shielding in starships, small craft, vehicles, battle dress and even off the rack vacc-suits.

There's no issues raised in the game about skimming gas giants, or exposure to hard stellar radiation on vacuum worlds, over several decades of life of characters, unless... hmm, maybe that's the survival and aging roll reasons

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I'll give you why MTU lacks frequent implants for spacers: radiation exposure.

Microprocessors are extremely radiation intolerant, especially alpha, beta, gamma-ray, and x-ray. (Hell, most of the Radio frequencies, really.)

Unfortunately, if the radiation was strong enough to affect the microprocessors, then the poor bugger who had them implanted would have already taken a lethal radiation dose. Atop that is the worrying issue, that if processors were that sensitive, then the electronics of his Vacc suit would have been fried too!!!. Modern (21st C) satellites and spacesuits are already hardened against glitches caused by incidental cosmic rays, so I can't see why more advanced tech wouldn't have superior redundancy/shielding built in.

I know that unshielded electronics could be effected by EMP's, but Traveller has nuclear dampers, so this form of attack wouln't work too often, and besides which a simple faraday cage will prevent any damage. In practical terms, this means a even a paper thin covering of foil will block EMP effects and this could easily be incorporated into the implants themselves.

The only reason that I can see why Marine don't have implants, is that its cheaper to build all the boosts and augmentations directly into their battledress! After all, Marines are used for boarding actions and orbital drop assaults - both of which need fully sealed battledress to survive potential vacuum. Why bother fiddling about with implants, when you can install bigger, tougher, and more powerful versions directly into the rig itself?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Alpha (helium nuclei) and Beta (electrons) particles are easily shielded by the skin and clothing. They are internal hazards only.

Neutrons and Gamma Rays (light) are the dangers and in space, the Gamma rays are VERY strong and called Cosmic Rays. There are validated reports from astronauts of being able to see the effects of cosmic rays on their eyes (they saw flashes of light with their eyes shut).

 

[captainjack23]

FWIW,in the olden days, my group had a kind of a unified theory of why stuff like that didn't work: hyperspace.

It covered why cybernetics was limited to prosthetics, computers were big, jump torps didn't work,robots were scarce and humans were needed for navigation & engineering.

The more time you spent in hyperspace, the more the (fill in tech wave here)* caused non-organic systems to become unreliable when used while in hyperspace and often degraded to non-usefulness under any circumstances if ever exposed to hyperspace. Organic systems either were less effected, or could recover, whereas non-organic systems couldn't. And if they could, (nanotech?) the cost and effort made it unfeasible.

Cyborgs and tiny computers existed, but couldn't leave a system, ever; and couldn't be exported. Shielding items was possible, as was overbuilding, but that increased bulk dramatically, and still wasn't 100% efffective if used in hyperspace. Generally, all such critical items were armored (engineering), or powered down (controls) or shut off and put away (much of the computer).

Plus, it gave some spooky hints about that old spacers story: jumpspace dementia.

worked for us.

*..I think we said something about different basic electrical constants, and later the diffences in the weak nuclear force...or maybe strange and unstoppable analogs of cosmic rays in hyperspace. The idea was that as tolerances got tighter, and voltages lower, things got weirder. Data Memory was, I recall, non-volatile; another source of bulkiness.



-Cap

 

[far-trader]

That's another good working thesis Cap I think I'd seen you mention it before, somewhere, and then kind of forgot about it. Have to write it down so I don't forget again

 

[captainjack23]

That's another good working thesis Cap I think I'd seen you mention it before, somewhere, and then kind of forgot about it. Have to write it down so I don't forget again

Well thank you !
Feel free to grind the serial numbers off it and take it home...8) I think I posted it in (cough) another forum sometime back.

Someday I may try and articulate my long-winded all-encompassing unified theory of jump drive, jumpspace, and what the hell happens . But not here.

-Cap