Combat - defense and multiple opponents

[Ssendam]

Hi have had an idea ... no hold on, don't go, bear with me here ...

I have always had an issue with how skilled warriors handle multiple opponents. I have always felt that the system with reactions linked to combat actions means that a very skilled warrior facing 3 opponents and having 2 Combat Actions faces the prospect of a "free" attack.

Even the best warrior can be out numbered but I thought about using a system were ...

- Combat Actions are limited to 2 per round for all characters. (I think a lot of people use this or a variation thereof anyway)

- Reactions are automatic for every attack, however ... after 2 reactions there is a negative modifier applied for each subsequent reaction, say -30% for the 3rd, -50% for the 4th, -70% for the 5th, -100% for the 6th ... and I think that's about the maximum number you can be surrounded by.

What do you think? Pitfalls?

 

[RosenMcStern]

This is a problem that is known to exist, albeit it was disregarded by many at first. If you want to have fixed CAs per round, the best number is three, as it allows you to enforce the penalties for fatigue.

The official rule for Basic Roleplaying is to have a cumulative -30% for each defense after the first. You can apply this to MRQ if you want to avoid the effect of rookies ganging up on the master and overcoming him: it will not disrupt the rules too much.

However, all this debate will become irrelevant in some months. :wink:

 

[Ssendam]

However, all this debate will become irrelevant in some months. :wink:

? Because of the rules revision? do we know how that will be changed?

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

However, all this debate will become irrelevant in some months. :wink:

? Because of the rules revision? do we know how that will be changed?

Its going to be far more 'leathery'!

And sometime before 2010 as well.

 

[Da Boss]

A few rules I use which may (or may not) be of interest............

Multiple Attacks – You may attempt additional attacks in a round, but these will be a cumulative -25%. If your modified skill falls below 1% you may no longer attack this round.

Draw Weapon – temp subtract 5 from his or her DEX (unless he or she has 90% or more in appropriate weapon skill in which case it is free)

Parry or Dodge – May do one or the other in one round, each additional use is at – 20%, if your modified skill falls below 1% you may no longer dodge or parry this round.

Fight Defensively – Forgoes any offensive actions, each additional use of Parry or Dodge is at -10%,

Critical strike: 10% or less of the skill, double damage, armour does not protect, it may be parried but the parrying object is then broken, including Demon weapons – unless it makes a CONx1 roll. A Critical dodge will also negate the attack. Critical Parries break the attacking weapon as above – if both attack and parry are critical both are destroyed.

Special Rules

Aiming
May spend time aiming, each -5 DEX temporarily sacrificed spent gives +10% to chance to hit (Max +30%).

Fumbles
A roll of 100 is always a fumble, if the skill is less than 50 a roll of 99 is also a fumble, if less than 25 a roll or 96+.

Major Wound
If a character takes half or more of their total initial hit points in one blow they suffer a major wound – roll on the appropriate table. They may only fight on before collapsing for their remaining hit points in rounds due to shock and blood loss.

Shields versus Missiles
Against arrows or other similar weapons – shields have the following modified chance to stop the attack
Small/half: ½ Parry, Full shield: Parry-15% Large Shield Parry: +10%

Weapon Mastery
Anyone with 90% in BOTH attack and parry is considered a Master in that weapon. They may train other characters and can turn a successful parry into an attack – a riposte (roll to hit as normal but can not be parried by attacker). They do not count as an attack but do suffer a cumulative –20% chance for each successive riposte attack.

A 1HD weapon may be used 2HD and is adjusted as follows: +4 damage, -10% to Attack, -20 to parry,

A 2HD weapon may be used 1HD if your STR is half again the requirement. -10% to Attack, -20 to Parry,

 

[Inspector Zero]

Ssendam wrote:
RosenMcStern wrote:


However, all this debate will become irrelevant in some months.


? Because of the rules revision? do we know how that will be changed?


Its going to be far more 'leathery'!

And sometime before 2010 as well.

Aww. If that happens what are we going to waste our evenings moaning about on this forum?

It may be irrational but I'm starting the "Don't fix MRQ!" campaign now.

 

[Icebrand]

Hi have had an idea ... no hold on, don't go, bear with me here ...

I have always had an issue with how skilled warriors handle multiple opponents. I have always felt that the system with reactions linked to combat actions means that a very skilled warrior facing 3 opponents and having 2 Combat Actions faces the prospect of a "free" attack.

Even the best warrior can be out numbered but I thought about using a system were ...

- Combat Actions are limited to 2 per round for all characters. (I think a lot of people use this or a variation thereof anyway)

- Reactions are automatic for every attack, however ... after 2 reactions there is a negative modifier applied for each subsequent reaction, say -30% for the 3rd, -50% for the 4th, -70% for the 5th, -100% for the 6th ... and I think that's about the maximum number you can be surrounded by.

What do you think? Pitfalls?

Check out the maneuvers on the RuneQuest redux. With double parry and double strike (both must be performed at -something, cost Hero Points to get and MP to use) you may attack 2 opponents and parry 2 per CA!

You may want to turn them into a legendary ability, something like:

Whatever Legendary Skill name you fancy:
two weapons or weapon and shield at 90%, DEX 19+
The character spins around like spiderman and/or a lame dark-skinned fighter/ranger elf and can cut through armies of oponents.
The character can attack two oponents (one with each weapon) but each skill is halved.
I.e: The second attack should be a shield bash or an attack with the offhand weapon.

Whatever Legendary Skill name you fancy #2:
two weapons, weapon and shield, staffs, spear, poles (and MAYBE 2-handed sword) 90%, DEX 13+ [yes, if you use a maul you should die a horrible death, actually i don't think mauls were ever used to fight... EVER, and i can't immagine a sledge hammer beeing as effective as a friggin longsword/katana/falx/spear]
The character assumes a defensive position and can parry any number of attacks from different opponents at a cumulative -30% penalty each.
[Or you could make him parry ALL attacks, but halve the skill %; in any case multiple attacks coming from one source -i cant think of any atm- should be parried at the cost of 2 reactions]

I hope this gives you some ideas!

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

After the light sword, dagger etc... mauls were a fairly popular medieval archers weapon amongst the English in France. Not fantastically so, but they were used.

They were probably handy, as archers had easy access to them (being cheap) as tools.

 

[Icebrand]

After the light sword, dagger etc... mauls were a fairly popular medieval archers weapon amongst the English in France. Not fantastically so, but they were used.

They were probably handy, as archers had easy access to them (being cheap) as tools.

Mauls as in THIS?

or mauls as in THIS?

I did some sanshou/sanda and traditional kung fu, and i have a slight idea on how the staff, spear, sabre, sword and 2-handed sword are used (again, SLIGHT, as my practice was very limited).

I do practice judo, and i think i might be stronger than the average joe. When i practiced sanshou we actually used sledgehammers to hit tires and let me tell you, im my oppinion a maul would be the last weapon i would use on combat.

This is the exercise (though the guy is a friggin giant).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDwwebvgWE

I think maybe the medieval "maul" is just an axe with a flat head on one side, as opposed to a sledge? (my knowledge on the matter is limited to wikipedia, and you seem to know your stuff )

On a similar matter, i recently read that "hand and half" swords are actually 2 handed, and they're called like that because you are suppossed to use one hand on the blade's edge.

Also, the RQ weapon list seems preety... modern for a bronze age-ish setting. Assuming glorantha is 1000 BC to 0 (which is mostly if not all iron age, but gloranthan bronze is like our iron) it's weird to see weapons from the XII-XV century.

I would really like an expert view on that

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Nope, as the first, but made of wood.

The second would have been called a "splitting (or cleaving) sledge".

As to knowing my stuff, well I used to work for Oxfordshire Museum Service as an 'Agricultural Vehicle Restorer' (not very glamourous work!!!), I do know a huge number of traditional craftsmen, and I have a vast collection of books on Medieval trade and craft practices.

However, I have never hit anyone over the head with a maul—but would think that even a man in a helmet would be stunned or shaken (certainly enough for someone to get a dagger quickly in an eye-slit).

 

[Icebrand]

Nope, as the first, but made of wood.

The second would have been called a "splitting (or cleaving) sledge".

As to knowing my stuff, well I used to work for Oxfordshire Museum Service as an 'Agricultural Vehicle Restorer' (not very glamourous work!!!), I do know a huge number of traditional craftsmen, and I have a vast collection of books on Medieval trade and craft practices.

However, I have never hit anyone over the head with a maul—but would think that even a man in a helmet would be stunned or shaken (certainly enough for someone to get a dagger quickly in an eye-slit).

Oh, maybe a wooden maul is lighter? fits the 2D6!

 

[soltakss]

Also, the RQ weapon list seems preety... modern for a bronze age-ish setting. Assuming glorantha is 1000 BC to 0 (which is mostly if not all iron age, but gloranthan bronze is like our iron) it's weird to see weapons from the XII-XV century.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the "Bronze Age" description of Glorantha, to be honest.

My gut feeling is that it was originally described that way to differentiate it from the clearly medieval setting of D&D.

Things have moved on, though. In some ways it is Bronze Age in that the primary weapon is bronze and iron is a magical and special metal, but even that is a different type of Bronze Age to the Bronze Age of the real world.

Glorantha is a mishmash and there are no general rules that apply to it.

People use whatever weapons they are familiar with and understand. So, people who have watched the Three Musketeers know about rapiers, fans of Robin Hood know Longbows and Broadswords/Shields, fans of Ninjas use shuriken and so on. Personally, I don't care that much as which weapons my PCs use isn't really the high point of my game.

It becomes a bit more important when the setting is a real-life hsitorical setting, but even then it doesn't really matter. If Robin Hood can use a recurved bow in the TV series then why can't a PC use a recurved bow in medieval England?