Combat Arm with an Expandable Shield?

The most likely situation in a modern or future setting is probably Baton and Shield.

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I guess that Pistol and Shield would come up as well. But that's still Melee (Bludgeon).

Huh. When getting that picture I discovered that you can get riot shields that are able to deliver an electric shock.

Stun shield confirmed.
 
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A shield isn’t typically used unarmed, so I would say only melee (blade) or (bludgeon) depending on if trained using it with a sword or mace. It is trained with an accompanying weapon and the techniques are different.
It would depend what you had in your other hand which skill you use. If you had a sword in your other hand you, use Melee(sword) to defend. If you had no weapon in your other hand it would be Melee(unarmed) to defend. If you had a baton in your other hand it would be Melee(bludgeon)
 
It would depend what you had in your other hand which skill you use. If you had a sword in your other hand you, use Melee(sword) to defend. If you had no weapon in your other hand it would be Melee(unarmed) to defend. If you had a baton in your other hand it would be Melee(bludgeon)
I will reiterate, that a shield is not used with an empty weapon hand. If you’re going to use a melee skill to use it, it needs to be one that is actually trained with in using the shield. melee (unarmed) should not count.
 
I will reiterate, that a shield is not used with an empty weapon hand. If you’re going to use a melee skill to use it, it needs to be one that is actually trained with in using the shield. melee (unarmed) should not count.
Tell that to Captain America! lolz. He punches people with his off-hand as well as with the shield. One is Melee(unarmed), the other is Melee(bludgeon). When defending, he could use whichever is higher, Melee(unarmed) or Melee(bludgeon) including the +1 for the shield.

Edit - He also kicks people while wielding a shield. A shield kick is Melee(unarmed).

Edit of the Edit - Also, what skill would you use to defend if you have a shield in one hand and are firing a gun with the other?
 
Tell that to Captain America! lolz. He punches people with his off-hand as well as with the shield. One is Melee(unarmed), the other is Melee(bludgeon). When defending, he could use whichever is higher, Melee(unarmed) or Melee(bludgeon) including the +1 for the shield.

Edit - He also kicks people while wielding a shield. A shield kick is Melee(unarmed).

Edit of the Edit - Also, what skill would you use to defend if you have a shield in one hand and are firing a gun with the other?
And no one else does. He’s an exception, not a rule. He probably has the skill Melee (unbreakable shield) or something. Or, being less tongue in cheek, using Melee (bludgeon) as a primary skill with it as a weapon.

With a gun in the other hand. You’re just getting the cover DM.
 
Anyone actually trying to punch or kick around a shield would be greatly inhibited. It’s a movie, not something that would be done except in extremis—with suitable negative DMs—by a Traveller.
It is not a tower shield. It is a small round shield. It is not hard to use your hands and feet when using a small shield. A big shield, yes. A small shield, no. A buckler, even easier.

Aren't negative DMs in situations like that called Bulky? Real question, I don't actually know.
 
I will reiterate, that a shield is not used with an empty weapon hand. If you’re going to use a melee skill to use it, it needs to be one that is actually trained with in using the shield. melee (unarmed) should not count.
I think we are drifting into far more detail than Traveller rules support. If you drop your sword or are disarmed accident then by your logic you would suddenly become less capable of defending with the shield. There are historic cases where a shield was used with a non-melee weapon (particularly thrown weapons and slings). The futuristic shield and pistol is also valid.

Obvious the benefit of being able to hide behind it or use it as partial cover vs ranged attacks (the protection and DM-2) are independent of any weapon in the the other hand, so we can dispense with discussing that.

The question therefore is whether the Parry requires a weapon in the other hand. We cannot simply say it can't be used for Melee(Unarmed) as the game has a number of weapons that are used with Melee(Unarmed). It is entirely possible to bat away a rapier thrust with a bare hand and that is I contend a "parry" within the rules as it doesn't provide the level of granularity to cover all historical fencing moves. You can also snatch even an edged weapon away with a bare hand (as long as you get a tight grip so it doesn't slide and cut your hand). This is covered in the Grappling rules - Melee(Unarmed) again. The rules do not explicitly state you require a weapon for you to parry (and many martial arts also train parrying the weapon arm rather than the weapon itself).

I believe that the shield can either be used to supplement a parry using the other hand (by passively cutting down the amount of the body exposed) or it can be used dynamically to defend (blocking a blow itself). Both methods are used historically with the amount of active vs passive being generally inversely proportional to the shield mass. Traveller does not allow the granularity to detail this so it is entirely reasonable to gloss over it (given we are talking a 6 second combat round with movement, minor actions and reactions all compressed into it in a non-structured way).

You can use whatever Melee skill is appropriate to the weapon you are using (including Bludgeon as you could use the shield itself). It doesn't matter what you attacked with this turn as you don't even need to attack to be able to parry (but you need to be at least holding the weapon to be able to parry with it). Even if you are untrained in Melee and have no skill at all several shields grant it to you (as high as Melee-1) so clearly training with a weapon isn't necessary to be able to parry with a shield. Apparently picking it up is sufficient (which make sense if you just hold it against you to cut down on attack vectors).

Since the combat arm can be used to parry as if a shield then you could use a shield in the other hand and use it to grant a DM to the parry from the arm. Simply punching would use the unarmed skill so that is the appropriate skill for a parry as well. Since you can build a weapon into the arm you have multiple attack and defence options when used with an expandable shield (we'll assume it is deployed as a large shield).

1) Combat arm with spiked or brass knuckles to attack. Parry using arm with Melee(Unarmed) with DM+2 for shield.
2) Combat arm with built in knife to attack. Parry using knife with Melee(Blade) with DM+2 for shield.
3) Combat arm with a club held with the combat arm. Parry using club with Melee(Bludgeon) with DM+2 for shield.
If you are using the Companion (and possibly other supplements) you also have other Melee specialisms available.

Regardless of what you are holding you can parry using Melee(Unarmed) to parry with the arm in which case the shield provides the DM+2.
You always have the option to use Melee(Bludgeon) to parry with the shield (if you have a combat arm it will providing the DM+2).

Either of these could be substituted if the skill level was higher than the specific weapon you were armed with.
 
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I think we are drifting into far more detail than Traveller rules support. If you drop your sword or are disarmed accident then by your logic you would suddenly become less capable of defending with the shield. There are historic cases where a shield was used with a non-melee weapon (particularly thrown weapons and slings). The futuristic shield and pistol is also valid.

Obvious the benefit of being able to hide behind it or use it as partial cover vs ranged attacks (the protection and DM-2) are independent of any weapon in the the other hand, so we can dispense with discussing that.

The question therefore is whether the Parry requires a weapon in the other hand. We cannot simply say it can't be used for Melee(Unarmed) as the game has a number of weapons that are used with Melee(Unarmed). It is entirely possible to bat away a rapier thrust with a bare hand and that is I contend a "parry" with the rules as it doesn't provide the level of granularity to cover all historical fencing moves. You can also snatch even an edged weapon away with a bare hand (as long as you get a tight grip so it doesn't slide and cut your hand). This is covered in the Grappling rules - Melee(Unarmed) again. The rules do not explicitly state you require a weapon for you to parry (and many martial arts also train parrying the weapon arm rather than the weapon itself).

I believe that the shield can either be used to supplement a parry using the other hand (by passively cutting down the amount of the body exposed) or it can be used dynamically to defend (blocking a blow itself). Both methods are used historically with the amount of active vs passive being generally inversely proportional to the shield mass. Traveller does not allow the granularity to detail this so it is entirely reasonable to gloss over it (given we are talking a 6 second combat round with movement, minor actions and reactions all compressed into it in a non-structured way).

You can use whatever Melee skill is appropriate to the weapon you are using (including Bludgeon as you could use the shield itself). It doesn't matter what you attacked with this turn as you don't even need to attack to be able to parry (but you need to be at least holding the weapon to be able to parry with it). Even if you are untrained in Melee and have no skill at all several shields grant it to you (as high as Melee-1) so clearly training with a weapon isn't necessary to be able to parry with a shield. Apparently picking it up is sufficient (which make sense if you just hold it against you to cut down on attack vectors).

Since the combat arm can be used to parry as if a shield then you could use a shield in the other hand and use it to grant a DM to the parry from the arm. Simply punching would use the unarmed skill so that is the appropriate skill for a parry as well. Since you can build a weapon into the arm you have multiple attack and defence options when used with an expandable shield (we'll assume it is deployed as a large shield).

1) Combat arm with spiked or brass knuckles to attack. Parry using arm with Melee(Unarmed) with DM+2 for shield.
2) Combat arm with built in knife to attack. Parry using knife with Melee(Blade) with DM+2 for shield.
3) Combat arm with a club held with the combat arm. Parry using club with Melee(Bludgeon) with DM+2 for shield.
If you are using the Companion (and possibly other supplements) you also have other Melee specialisms available.

Regardless of what you are holding you can parry using Melee(Unarmed) to parry with the arm in which case the shield provides the DM+2.
You always have the option to use Melee(Bludgeon) to parry with the shield (if you have a combat arm it will providing the DM+2).

Either of these could be substituted if the skill level was higher than the specific weapon you were armed with.
Thank you for explaining things better than I ever could! :)
 
Hmmm... there is a bit of a delta between shields in the CRB and those in the CSC. The CRB shield gives +1 to Melee skill or grants Melee 1 if you have no Melee skill.

The Shield in CSC gives +1 to Melee skill but grants Melee 0. Since in parrying you inflict your Melee skill as a negative DM (without any DEX modifier) then the CSC shield is useless for non-skilled users (and since the useless parry would be a reaction and impose a -1 on your next action it would be counter productive).

I'd be inclined to go with the CSC version. With absolutely no melee skill I suspect a shield would do more harm than good in melee. They still have the benefit of being cover and being good to hide behind with respect to ranged weapons so they are not a complete bust.
 
Smacking someone with a shield is Melee (Bludgeon). That seems like the sensible fallback if you drop your stun stick over awkwardly trying to punch them.

But really, it's more about what weapon loadouts you've trained for. Pistol and shield is different to baton and shield, which is itself a bit different to sword and shield (although a case could be made to count batons as swords, since they're both balanced striking weapons). On the other hand... CSC classes spears as Blade weapons, but Sword and Shield is NOT the same as Spear and Shield.

In any case, you wouldn't expect someone who has trained as a cop in baton and shield to transfer to an edged weapon and shield without a bit of practice. Some of this should come down to taking a bit of practice time to come up to speed with a thing you're not used to. Maybe a bane is justified if you've literally just picked up a sword for the first time, regardless of how good your Melee (Bludgeon) is? (You'd still avoid Unskilled)
 
Smacking someone with a shield is Melee (Bludgeon). That seems like the sensible fallback if you drop your stun stick over awkwardly trying to punch them.

But really, it's more about what weapon loadouts you've trained for. Pistol and shield is different to baton and shield, which is itself a bit different to sword and shield (although a case could be made to count batons as swords, since they're both balanced striking weapons). On the other hand... CSC classes spears as Blade weapons, but Sword and Shield is NOT the same as Spear and Shield.

In any case, you wouldn't expect someone who has trained as a cop in baton and shield to transfer to an edged weapon and shield without a bit of practice. Some of this should come down to taking a bit of practice time to come up to speed with a thing you're not used to. Maybe a bane is justified if you've literally just picked up a sword for the first time, regardless of how good your Melee (Bludgeon) is? (You'd still avoid Unskilled)
For defense with a shield don't you avoid the unskilled anyhow, since even unskilled you defend at Melee/0?
 
Yeah, I sort of got that wrong, but it's also not quite Melee/0 either.

CRB says that a character with a shield increases their effective Melee skill by 1 when parrying, and a character with no Melee skill counts as having Melee 1 when using a shield to parry (p.125)

So a character with no Melee skill at all or Melee 0, fighting with a weapon and shield, who parries with the weapon for some reason*, gets effective Melee 1 in that weapon (shield increases the skill level by one). If they parry with the shield (because that makes more sense) they count as having effective Melee 1 and as far as I can tell that becomes effective Melee 2 for the parry, same as someone with actual Melee 1 who has their skilled weapon and a shield.

(* I don't know. Maybe it has some special effect like an electric shock if it is the thing doing the parrying. Or if you're using it to parry a barehand attack and success causes damage.)
 
Yeah, I sort of got that wrong, but it's also not quite Melee/0 either.

CRB says that a character with a shield increases their effective Melee skill by 1 when parrying, and a character with no Melee skill counts as having Melee 1 when using a shield to parry (p.125)

So a character with no Melee skill at all or Melee 0, fighting with a weapon and shield, who parries with the weapon for some reason*, gets effective Melee 1 in that weapon (shield increases the skill level by one). If they parry with the shield (because that makes more sense) they count as having effective Melee 1 and as far as I can tell that becomes effective Melee 2 for the parry, same as someone with actual Melee 1 who has their skilled weapon and a shield.

(* I don't know. Maybe it has some special effect like an electric shock if it is the thing doing the parrying. Or if you're using it to parry a barehand attack and success causes damage.)
That is interesting. I hadn't read it as both clauses applied, I read it as an either/or rather than and. As it is two separate sentences there is no and implying both statements apply but you could read it both ways.

Shield: A Traveller using a shield increases their effective Melee skill by +1 when parrying. A Traveller with no Melee skill counts as having Melee 1 when using a shield to parry. CRB p125

Your interpretation means the CSC wording would at least make sense (as it grants Melee 0 rather than Melee 1).

It would also however mean that as the CRB wording only grants Melee to 1 if you have no skill, not if you have Melee 0. Your interpretation means someone unskilled in Melee would impose DM-2 when parrying but someone with Melee 0 would actually only impose DM-1.

This seems wrong.
 
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Yeah, I sort of got that wrong, but it's also not quite Melee/0 either.

CRB says that a character with a shield increases their effective Melee skill by 1 when parrying, and a character with no Melee skill counts as having Melee 1 when using a shield to parry (p.125)

So a character with no Melee skill at all or Melee 0, fighting with a weapon and shield, who parries with the weapon for some reason*, gets effective Melee 1 in that weapon (shield increases the skill level by one). If they parry with the shield (because that makes more sense) they count as having effective Melee 1 and as far as I can tell that becomes effective Melee 2 for the parry, same as someone with actual Melee 1 who has their skilled weapon and a shield.

(* I don't know. Maybe it has some special effect like an electric shock if it is the thing doing the parrying. Or if you're using it to parry a barehand attack and success causes damage.)
CSC trumps the CRB. Yes?

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I have to agree that the CSC wording is better.

And on reflection I think I was wrong to conflate the CRB clauses; it makes more sense as you say that the unskilled character has a final effective Melee skill of 1 when parrying with a shield, same as Melee 0.
 
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