Clockwork & Chivalry questions

[yori]

I apologize in advance if this is covered in the A&E book (which I don't own).

In the C&C core book on page 97 it states,

"Flintlocks... can be assumed to be able to fire without a Combat Action Penalty, if already loaded."

What does this mean? That it can be fired as a free action on your turn as you simultaneously do something else?

"If a match is kept lit then the Matchlock can also be considered to be instantly usable (but it still takes one Combat Action to light the flax above the trigger), if primed and ready; otherwise a match will need to be lit (1 extra Combat Action - so that's a two action penalty even if there is already a bullet in the gun and powder in the pan!) before it can be fired."

So I take this to mean that if your matchlock is loaded and rested (resting on a stand or log or whatever) but the match is not lit, you must spend,

1 CA to light the match plus
1 Ca to pull the trigger (snapping the match into the firing pan igniting the primer powder)?


Regarding the load times.. for example, a Flintlock Carbine lists a Load 3. So 3 CA's to reload a carbine? If you have 3 CA'a, that means a 5 second flintlock reload? That's extremely generous, don't you think?

If I'm misunderstanding reload times, I apologize.

 

[doomedpc]

In the C&C core book on page 97 it states,

"Flintlocks... can be assumed to be able to fire without a Combat Action Penalty, if already loaded."

What does this mean? That it can be fired as a free action on your turn as you simultaneously do something else?

Basically if the Flintlock is already loaded and primed then you can fire on the first available CA according to Strike Rank. You have to spend the one CA though, it is not a free action.

"If a match is kept lit then the Matchlock can also be considered to be instantly usable (but it still takes one Combat Action to light the flax above the trigger), if primed and ready; otherwise a match will need to be lit (1 extra Combat Action - so that's a two action penalty even if there is already a bullet in the gun and powder in the pan!) before it can be fired."

So I take this to mean that if your matchlock is loaded and rested (resting on a stand or log or whatever) but the match is not lit, you must spend,

1 CA to light the match plus
1 Ca to pull the trigger (snapping the match into the firing pan igniting the primer powder)?

No, the breakdown is more,

1 CA to light the match
1 CA to apply the lit match to the match on the matchlock

Then 1 CA to pull trigger.

Regarding the load times.. for example, a Flintlock Carbine lists a Load 3. So 3 CA's to reload a carbine? If you have 3 CA'a, that means a 5 second flintlock reload? That's extremely generous, don't you think?

Yes, it is a generous reload time. Basically if you have 3 CA you would fire on the fourth after starting the reloading process (because the 3 is the reload time, not including the firing), but it is still fast. Of course this would represent a "snap shot" - there is no aiming bonus if you fire as soon as able.

It is a difficult one - we didn't want to make Black Powder weapons so time consuming that Adventurers would never use one (they still are time consuming compared to other ranged weapons) - and a skilled individual could get off more shots per minute (or two ), than the average rate of fire by a massed formation of hastily trained recruits. But essentially we thought the rates given represent the right game balance. That said, there would be nothing to stop a GM having a house rule extending the load time, but from our experience, in playtesting the balance felt right.

Hope that is helpful

Long Live the Mainspring
Peter Cakebread

Cakebread and Walton
Purveyors of Fine Imaginings

 

[carandol]

Re: matchlocks

No, the breakdown is more,

1 CA to light the match
1 CA to apply the lit match to the match on the matchlock

Then 1 CA to pull trigger.

But bear in mind that if a soldier knows combat is likely, he'll be carrying a lit match (a match being a piece of slow-burning fuse), so the first CA wouldn't then apply.

In fact, in siege situations, soldiers sallying out of a besieged town to attack the besiegers often gave themselves away with the glow of their matches. And sometimes they would throw balls of clay with small pieces of burning match embedded in them toward the enemy in the dark to give the impression of approaching soldiers, causing the enemy to waste scarce ammunition firing at no-one.

 

[yori]

No, the breakdown is more,

1 CA to light the match
1 CA to apply the lit match to the match on the matchlock

Then 1 CA to pull trigger.

oh, ok.

Yes, it is a generous reload time.

A superhuman feat, you mean.

It is a difficult one - we didn't want to make Black Powder weapons so time consuming that Adventurers would never use one (they still are time consuming compared to other ranged weapons).

Fair enough. I sympathise with the need for balance. For our group, I'll probably up the damage for the firearms since nothing but 'proofed' armour stopped shot. I'll increase their reload times as well since... well, someone reloading and firing a flintlock/wheellock musket in 5 seconds would annoy me to no end. :lol: (a 15 sec reload for someone trained to so do, day in and day out, was considered 'quick').

So generally, I envision skirmishes with one shot fired then the firearm is used as a club or dropped completely and replaced with a drawn sword. However, I completely understand how much lower reload times and plenty of gun play is reasonable (and more exciting) for other players/GMs.



Thank you for your prompt response. I see you are scattered out over multiple forums (here, cubicle's, strike to stun, rpgnet, etc). Is there an 'official' forum in the works?


Oh and before it slips my mind, are there Combat Manueuvres for blackpowder firearms?


Good work on C&C. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the core book and The Alchemist's Wife. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) presenting it to our gaming group in the coming year.

 

[yori]

But bear in mind that if a soldier knows combat is likely, he'll be carrying a lit match (a match being a piece of slow-burning fuse), so the first CA wouldn't then apply.

True. The 'light the flax above the trigger' threw me off since (to my knowledge) the lit match was removed from the 'lock' and away from the weapon to prevent the pan or barrel powder from accidentally going off during reloading/priming. Afterward the lit match was quickly reattached, rested, and fired. (all in all about a 30 sec to 1 min reload time )


I wasn't sure what you going on about with the flax. Thank you for the insight.

 

[doomedpc]

Fair enough. I sympathise with the need for balance. For our group, I'll probably up the damage for the firearms since nothing but 'proofed' armour stopped shot. I'll increase their reload times as well since... well, someone reloading and firing a flintlock/wheellock musket in 5 seconds would annoy me to no end. Laughing (a 15 sec reload for someone trained to so do, day in and day out, was considered 'quick').

There are various different claims made re: rate of fire - but I think your solution is a good one if the speed grates. There are perennial problems with standardising Black Powder weapons, they could be devastating, but equally they could be ineffective; reasonably reliable or unreliable; etc. From a role playing point of view the emphasis is going to be on micro action most of the time, rather than being one in a long firing line slugging away for hours. I think a lot of ECW wargames have to make a similar compromise in order to be engaging (but argue that "scaling up" explains the anomalies), but it is all about the story in C&C, and if you think a fast RoF spoils the suspension of disbelief you are better going with your instincts.

The later mass produced ECW weapons were designed for functionality and to be easily used by untrained recruits, barrel lengths getting shorter, rests being dispensed with, designs kept as simple as possible, etc., but in massed formations you would realistically be looking at one or two minutes between shots as the ranks maneuvered according to the book.

So generally, I envision skirmishes with one shot fired then the firearm is used as a club or dropped completely and replaced with a drawn sword.

Yep, or a rider riding up, firing a whole clutch of pre-prepared pistols, before resorting to using his sword. I think despite the (relatively) quick load times this will still happen (it certainly does in our games) - in fact, this is where I think the mechanic does well - if an enemy takes potshots and an Adventurer does the same, then it works; while if someone closes in then even the reduced loading time seems like an age. So the main advantage in the speedy loading times is if there is a large mixed combat - it weighs in favour of the musket, but balancewise, we haven't found this to be a problem in actual play.

Thank you for your prompt response. I see you are scattered out over multiple forums (here, cubicle's, strike to stun, rpgnet, etc). Is there an 'official' forum in the works?

No problem, I'm happy to help. I think there will be a sub forum starting on C7 (see the latest post there for more), it would be better to have one place for people to discuss stuff as the more minds the merrier, but I expect I will still post news on multiple forums/answer stuff if I can be of help.

Oh and before it slips my mind, are there Combat Manueuvres for blackpowder firearms?

Not specifically, we have just used the ones in MRQII. It might be something we look at in the future.

Btw, Colin Chapman (of Radioactive Ape Designs) has been working on expanding the Arms and Armour lists for C&C, including some fresh Combat Styles (see forthcoming Signs and Portents).

Good work on C&C. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the core book and The Alchemist's Wife. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) presenting it to our gaming group in the coming year.

Brilliant - I hope you have a blast with it

Long Live the Mainspring
Peter Cakebread

Cakebread and Walton
Purveyors of Fine Imaginings