Clash of civilisations - Remember the film The 13th Warrior?

Jed Clayton

Mongoose
Sometimes when I am GM'ing a fantasy game like RuneQuest, I get complaints and criticisms from players for trying to combine characters from vastly different cultural and socio-economic backgrounds into one group of adventurers. Generally RuneQuest does not use or encourage the typical party of elf-dwarf-halfling-human-halforc, etc. That is D&D, not RuneQuest. What RQ has is a selection of many different human peoples.

When I played Hero Wars / HeroQuest, I found out it was nigh impossible in that game to have a lasting, on-going adventurer party made up of people from different cultures and religions, at least not without disrupting and/or ignoring some core concepts of that game, such as the concept of the "hero of a community" or the "hero bands" with common goals and so on. That was also a part of HeroQuest that was extremely hard for me to get across to my players. I am happy that RuneQuest in general is a bit more liberal in this area.

Playing an accurate Gloranthan campaign with the different major religions in place as they are written will still be hard, but that is not what I am doing right now. I still like to allow many different characters from different cultures in the same adventuring group.

That much for my introduction.

Now, I am actually looking for some real history to inform my gamemastering here. In fact I am looking for some obscure material from Arabic history:

Do you know that period film with Antonio Banderas, "The 13th Warrior"? Incidentally that one was recommended to me by a gamer friend all those years back, just at the time that the movie had opened in theaters.

For those who haven't seen it: Antonio Banderas plays a highly civilized Muslim Arabic scribe (who is also a bit of a swordsman) who travels all the way up to Scandinavia and lives among a savage Norse tribe, and joins the "Vikings" (or rather, the Norse) in a decisive battle against an even more savage people. The Arab later returns to his Caliph to report about his adventures alongside the Norse.

It's a pretty well made action film, but I had always assumed that the mere idea of an Arab dealing extensively with the Viking civilization in the (ca.) 11th century was, at best, a fiction of the screenwriter. That was, until a few months ago!

Recently I read an article in a Muslim newspaper, titled "Among the Northmen" (OK, I mean that was the title of the article, not the title of the paper). That story was detailing things from the historical accounts of an Arab fellow named Ibn Fadlan, written in the 11th century or thereabouts.

This guy wrote a history book about the Arabs' contacts with the Viking Norse, who according to these sources were not always as barbarous and bloodthirsty as the usual Western European accounts may make you think. You have to understand that the Norse seafarers had a spectacularly large trade area that stretched basically from contemporary Norway and Sweden to Baghdad and beyond. (This is why archaeologists found Arabic dirham coins in Viking gravesites.) It is now seen as an historical fact that individual Scandinavian traders repeatedly reached Baghdad in the era of the Abbasid Caliphs, and some of their trade expeditions used the Volga river in Russia to sail well into Central Asian territory, trading furs for silver. There even used to be a Norse-controlled principality around Kiev and Novgorod.

Interestingly, because of this Norse presence in what is today Russia and Ukraine, the Arabic name for these tall, often blond Northmen was usually "Rus". Historians say that they weren't Russians, but Germanic Scandinavians.

I now tend to assume that this Ibn Fadlan may have been the inspiration for Banderas' character in the film.

Ever since reading the article in that newspaper, I have wanted to get a hold of the actual text that Ibn Fadlan wrote. It was originally titled "Risala". I do not read Arabic, let alone medieval Arabic, so a good translation into English, French or German would be preferred.

A search on Amazon.com led to nothing so far. When I typed in "Ibn Fadlan" and "Risala" as my keywords, all I found was an out-of-print scholarly tome from the 1970s which would have cost some 80 dollars or more, were it still available.

So, any help on this subject would be welcome. If you know any translations of the Risala book, or al-Tartoushi's text "Description of a Danish Marketplace," please let me know. There are also said to be additional accounts, written even earlier, by authors named Ibn Khurradadhih (an intelligence agent of the Caliph Al-Mu'tamid) and Ibn Rustah, who was also an astronomer. Also feel free to recommend any other readable history books that deal with this Norse-Arab connection.
 
I really don't know if this will help you out at all but that movie is based on the novel "The Eaters of the Dead" by Michael Chrichton (of Jurassic Park fame).
 
Rurik said:
I really don't know if this will help you out at all but that movie is based on the novel "The Eaters of the Dead" by Michael Chrichton (of Jurassic Park fame).

Hey, interesting.

But no matter which source Michael Crichton was working from, I just found it very enlightening and very noteworthy that actual friendly trade contacts of Arabs and Norse really existed.

That is what I would like to read more about.

I might pick up the Michael Crichton novel at some point.
 
For a text and fairly-accurate-ish commentary in English, see
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ibn_fdln.shtml

I've also a long commentary on pdf by James E. Montgomery that i could send to you - pm me if you want.

Cheers

Dave
 
I've just found the link to the Montgomery article in the Journal of Arabic and Islamic Studies at
http://www.uib.no/jais/content3.htm

Cheers

Dave
 
There's always the March/April 1979 print edition of Saudi Aramco World at
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197902/ibn.fadlan.and.the.midnight.sun.htm

Cheers

Dave
(the one-man thread)
 
In German - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Ibn_Fadl%C4%81n

OK, now it's getting silly. I'll shut up.

Cheers

Dave
 
Gevrin said:
In German - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Ibn_Fadl%C4%81n

OK, now it's getting silly. I'll shut up.

Cheers

Dave

You're far from silly ... I love you guys. That was so quick. I really didn't expect to get many responses here so early (or in the middle of the night).

Now I realise I should have checked Wikipedia a little earlier.

Thanks a lot.
 
Gevrin said:
I've just found the link to the Montgomery article in the Journal of Arabic and Islamic Studies at
http://www.uib.no/jais/content3.htm

Cheers

Dave

Brilliant. That is a very fine text (or piece of scholarship, rather). I am reading it right now.

I was in fact given this link by somebody else a few minutes ago, somebody from another forum.

But thanks! I knew I could expect some history buffs to be on a RuneQuest-ish forum.
 
All right. It's a small world after all.

It turns out that the very article by Judith Gabriel that I read (in: Islamische Zeitung #133, Dec. 2006) was published seven years earlier - in English - in the Saudi Aramco World, too.

You can all read it on the web at this link:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/199906/among.the.norse.tribes-the.remarkable.account.of.ibn.fadlan.htm

Thanks again.
 
And I always get him confused with Ibn Battuta, another traveller who wrote of his journeys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta
 
Jandar said:
I now tend to assume that this Ibn Fadlan may have been the inspiration for Banderas' character in the film.

Banderas' character's name was Ahmad ibn Fadlan. It was actually Ahmad ibn Fadlan ibn Rashid ibn probably lots of other stuff but the Northmen cut him off.

Without looking at all the links above, I'm fairly pretty darned sure the historical character was the inspiration for the film.

That film gets a bad rap, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I came out of that movie wanting to run RQ3 in the Fantasy Earth setting, with a whole bunch of Norse/Scots/Rus and a few Arabs/Moors thrown in for good luck.
 
Jandar said:
This guy wrote a history book about the Arabs' contacts with the Viking Norse, who according to these sources were not always as barbarous and bloodthirsty as the usual Western European accounts may make you think. You have to understand that the Norse seafarers had a spectacularly large trade area that stretched basically from contemporary Norway and Sweden to Baghdad and beyond. (This is why archaeologists found Arabic dirham coins in Viking gravesites.) It is now seen as an historical fact that individual Scandinavian traders repeatedly reached Baghdad in the era of the Abbasid Caliphs, and some of their trade expeditions used the Volga river in Russia to sail well into Central Asian territory, trading furs for silver. There even used to be a Norse-controlled principality around Kiev and Novgorod.

When I was looking for source material on a Mythic Russia (HeroQuest) writeup for the Bashkorts/Golden Horde, I came across a lot of references to ibn Fadlan who mentioned those peoples in his travels. It was only later that I read that he was the inspiration for the 13th Warrior character, although I had seen the film before.

There's a good link on the Wikipedia site pointing to a Bulgarian site with information about this travels. http://www.megaone.com/nbulgaria/bulgaria/risala.htm.


It is a very good film, at least I enjoyed it as did my Roleplaying friends, very RuneQuesty in nature and would make a good RQ scenario/campaign.
 
iamtim said:
Jandar said:
I now tend to assume that this Ibn Fadlan may have been the inspiration for Banderas' character in the film.

Banderas' character's name was Ahmad ibn Fadlan. It was actually Ahmad ibn Fadlan ibn Rashid ibn probably lots of other stuff but the Northmen cut him off.

Without looking at all the links above, I'm fairly pretty darned sure the historical character was the inspiration for the film.

That film gets a bad rap, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I came out of that movie wanting to run RQ3 in the Fantasy Earth setting, with a whole bunch of Norse/Scots/Rus and a few Arabs/Moors thrown in for good luck.

Hello Tim!

As I said (in another context): Small world!

I have to remember that you're on this forum, too.
I will get back in touch with you about RQ-related plans when I have more time for them. I am currently writing bits and pieces for two other game systems. Let me know how things are coming along at Seraphim Guard.
 
Errrm, as a descendant of _both_ arabic and norse ancestors, may I point out that there was much more contact between the two that is suggested in the (always among my favorites - the Italian tv re-aired it last month and I could not resist the temptation to watch it again) 13th warrior movie? My home city was part of the Arabian empire in the 800-1000 AD period, and then it was ruled by Norman princes till 1250 AD. And there _was_ intercultural exchange! In fact there is an entire architectural style, known as norman-arab, peculiar to southern Italy, in which the base plans were designed by norman architects but executed by arabian crafters. The result was - well, you must see it to get the idea!

Royal Palace

Cathedral
Church

Incidentally, I am writing an independent RuneQuest supplement about that setting, involving arabian warriors fighting alongside teuton knights and other europeans (and yes, it HAPPENED in real world history!). If everything goes well, I'll have the final product ready at Tentacles.
 
given that the scandinavians went just about anywhere they could (and a few places noone thought they could), there's quite a bit of room for cultures getting along... or killing each other :)
 
Related but not on entirley on topic, just wanted to say that the Norse part of the story is based on Beowulf. Clever of Chrichton to take the Ibn Fadlan story and combine it with the epic poem to come up with a new story.
 
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