Choose Location Maneuver. Unbalanced??

gautxoriak

Mongoose
First of all, I would like to apologize if my english is not as good as It supposed to be (I am from Spain).

I have reading the rules, and althought I haven´t already tried them... I seems the choose location maneuver is unbalanced.

I think if I was a player, I always choose this maneuver instead of others. And If you roll a critical success and the enemy fails to parry, You´d better start to pray. The conbination of Choose location plus Maximize Damage is perfect.

Do you think the choose location maneuver is too good? Is unbalanced?
 
I have played these rules and the game is now very dynamic. You can choose location and maximize damage, but if you are facing a great troll with a protection spell, choose location won' t do nothing more than tickle. In such cases it will be much better to damage weapon or unbalance him, or stun location, or sunder armour. Believe me, after a few sessions, you will prove it.
You have a pm. Read it. I am Spanish, like you.
 
Choose location is powerful. If your players seem to overuse it, restrict it to a CS only maneuver. gran_orco is right, however. If you have to fight something tougher than humans, the other ones can be helpful.
 
And remember, the rules also say (Optional Rule, page 89) an opponent can get cumulative +10% bonus each time a combatant chooses the same maneuver; perhaps if the enemy see your adventurers using Choose Location every time they will get wise to this trick... and maybe it applies to the whole opposing side... ("Hey, look, he's aiming for the head *Every Single Time*")
 
In last nights game one character wailed on a host of unarmoured Skeletons with a quarter staff by using choose location head. Until he met the one with a plate helmet :lol:

A bit of quick thinking can always scupper a good plan.

I find that scantily clad handmaidens with Protection 6 always cause confusion.
 
Well the head of an average person will have 5 HPs. The helmet rules in this game are pretty strange but I just figure that most armor type refer to a different type of cheaply made metal helmet. That said seeing somebody who is expecting combat sporting a 4 AP scale helm (250sp) shouldn't be that surprising.

5HP + 4 AP = 9EHP (effective hit points). Most one handed weapons max out at 1d8+1 damage. Choose location + Maximize damage cause a serious wound requiring a resilience test to stay conscious (you just failed to parry a critical hit, spend a hero point to force a reroll of the attack, on the other hand that's about right for a good crit against an NPC).

Now a greatsword will likely take the characters head right off but...it's a direct hit from a greatsword!
 
gautxoriak said:
I have reading the rules, and althought I haven´t already tried them... I seems the choose location maneuver is unbalanced.

I think if I was a player, I always choose this maneuver instead of others. And If you roll a critical success and the enemy fails to parry, You´d better start to pray. The conbination of Choose location plus Maximize Damage is perfect.
Learn to fight. Then you'll realise that aimed shots are the most common form of attack. :)

Battlefield pathology shows head wounds are more frequent than any other wound, which is why helmets are the standard armour throughout history.

Is Choose Location unbalanced? Considering the dynamic nature of combat, other CMs can be far more potent. Use it repetitively, and a sensible opponent will punish you for it.
 
Not to contradict (and I could be very wrong on this :oops: ), but I had understood that the most common wounds would be to the legs and incapacitation of the combatant and then finished off post battle (which might coincide with the head wound pathology).

I can't recall the archaeological source, but I believe the pathology for the wounds on the Danish horde of of Harald Hardrada when surprised by Harold Godwinson's army was head and from behind as they didn't have time to armour themselves and were effectively routed and driven from the field of battle.

Granted, going for the head is pretty much guaranteed to put someone down.

If I had the skill or had generated a good enough hit, I'd go for the head unless it was armoured, but I guess it would be down to tactics, the foe being faced and if he was armoured, shielded and supported.

I find nothing wrong with 'targeting' a location as that would also be an inherent part of a feint or disguised blow which a trained and competent warrior could deliver.

Perhaps, if some are worried about CM's they could also make them tied to the skill ability of the character, but I think that would just be adding more book-keeping and not really sure if it is needed or adds anything (IMHO).
 
Many excavated medieval corpses from battle pits (I'm thinking particularly of Wisby) show evidence of feinting attacks to the head and upper body, then hacking off of the legs.

However, it is a very common observation that head hits seem to make opponents loose concentration, and thus fights.
 
WARNING! This post includes lots of boring archaeological stuff only of interest to historians or GMs who want realism in their games. ;)

Raegenhere said:
Not to contradict (and I could be very wrong on this Embarassed ), but I had understood that the most common wounds would be to the legs and incapacitation of the combatant and then finished off post battle (which might coincide with the head wound pathology).
No worries! :) Yes, as Lord High Munchkin pointed out the pathology of the Battle of Wisby mass burial is the often quoted example of legs being a primary target. Whilst it shows a predominance of leg wounds, the battle itself needs to be taken in context. The forensic analysis revealed that the defenders were a hastily thrown together militia of teenage boys and old men, wearing second hand armour. So it was probably less of a battle and more like a slaughter of untrained peasants by a professional army.

The Battle of Towton shows a different emphasis on wound pathology, the majority of injuries being to the head and forearms. This grave is also open to context problems though, since some theories suggest the bodies in the grave were executed prisoners, hence the number of head wounds and maybe arms (but why are the arms free during executions?) are unusually high. However, the more interesting discovery are the frequency of ante-mortum head and arm injuries on the same bodies, i.e. previous wounds which had healed, which suggests to me that these were still the primary targets.

Something which seems to slip from many archaeologist's minds is that when two lines of battle engage, it is almost impossible to strike anywhere below the shoulders of your enemy, unless you have a short stabbing weapon. The press of both sides prevents a clear path for a swinging weapon. If you've ever wondered why imperial Roman legionaries aren't armoured from the waist down, this is the reason.

Lord High Munchkin said:
However, it is a very common observation that head hits seem to make opponents loose concentration, and thus fights.
Indeed! Striking at the legs generally only occurs in single combats, such as open skirmishes or duels, or when a close ordered enemy is refusing contact and retreating. Even so, looking at single combat specialists such as Roman gladiators for example, forensic examination still shows a very high incidence of healed ante-mortum head wounds.

Raegenhere said:
I can't recall the archaeological source, but I believe the pathology for the wounds on the Danish horde of of Harald Hardrada when surprised by Harold Godwinson's army was head and from behind as they didn't have time to armour themselves and were effectively routed and driven from the field of battle.
It is generally easier to strike targets at shoulder level, which gives you the most reach. This becomes doubly true if you are running.

I find nothing wrong with 'targeting' a location as that would also be an inherent part of a feint or disguised blow which a trained and competent warrior could deliver.
Precisely!

Of course the Choose Location CM allows you to select whatever target you desire, so you don't need to worry what really was or wasn't the primary target in a fight. Just aim the blow where it'll be the most effective, such as an unarmoured head or a previously injured location. :D
 
Mongoose Pete said:
Indeed! Striking at the legs generally only occurs in single combats, such as open skirmishes or duels, or when a close ordered enemy is refusing contact and retreating.
Of course, the incidence of leg hits does go up in the later medieval period with the rise of bladed polearms—particularly bills (one of the nastier weapons, and which are grossly underrated in MRQ).
 
Where magic is involved, you hit their legs and they heal, you hit their head and they are unconscious and unable to heal.

Unless they have other sources of healing ...
 
Okay, I think this is particularly interesting for a couple of reasons. First of all, I sometimes restrict certain attacks (particularly unarmed or tankard attacks in barfights) to a d12+8 roll. This is indicative of the number of times I have seen someone take a swing in a brawl and randomly punch someone in the leg. Which is to say- never. Now, people fall down, get stomped on, etc, but usually- unless 1 guy is the karate kid- they are always aiming for the head :shock: The only time someone hits an arm is if they are way off target (the chances of which increase the more inebriated they are), or if someone blocks(parries)! And as far as the penalty for aiming at the head- I have seen a few guys who knew the punch was coming at thier face everytime and still ended up on thier backs.
Now skilled fighters with shields in a one-on-one deathmatch are a different story, and I think this is the beauty of Runequest- you can adapt it to fit the circumstances. If a guy is swinging at your head consistently as you block it with your shield, chances are higher that he is gonna lose a leg eventually. Under these conditions I think the penalty applies, however if a defender is facing a phalanx and is being pushed forward by his own army into choose location CMs, maybe not.
But Barfights? C'mon! Unless it's a chair or a thrown flaggon- no penalties and Choose Loc CM's all day! It's only right...
 
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