Charging in Combat

[Captain Brann]

Hi
Had a disagreement with how charging worked last session.

The character has 3 CA.
He charges at 16m for 2 CA and then attacks leaving him 1CA
Others said he had to use 2 CA in movement [which he had] and then attack with the last one.

To me that makes no sense, as otherwise the target gets to attack you after you arrive but before you can strike.


Any thoughts.

Thanks

 

[strega]

I suggest a re-read of pages 126 & 127 dealing with movement in combat and the rules for Full Round Manoeuvres and Charging pages 143 and 144.

"In a Combat Round, an Adventurer may move up to his standard Movement allowance. This
movement is divided across all of the Adventurer’s Combat Actions. Each Combat Action may
include all, some or none of the Adventurer’s remaining Movement in addition to an attack or
other action."

Note the wording 'in addition to an attack'.

"The Adventurer moves a total of 3x his normal Movement and attacks
along the way. During the round, all the Adventurer’s Combat Actions but one must be
spent on Move, but in each action he moves up to 2x his normal Movement."

Note the wording "and attacks along the way."

So moving for two CAs meets the requirement for using all his CAs but one and ending in an attack meets the statement concerning attacks along the way. The charger rightly moves 16 metres and attacks at the end of the 2nd CA leaving him with 1 CA to parry or make another attack. If he had further movement available he could continue past his target and end the turn adjacent to someone else.

 

[Captain Brann]

Thanks
That was what I was sure it said

 

[Olaus Petrus]

The charger rightly moves 16 metres and attacks at the end of the 2nd CA leaving him with 1 CA to parry or make another attack. If he had further movement available he could continue past his target and end the turn adjacent to someone else.

Rules are clear that if you charge you can't do anything else during that turn, because all but one CA must be spent on move. And you can't attack if your CA is move (but move can be part of any other combat action, in this case it's likely that 1 non-move CA is attack and charger uses part of his move also during this CA). While rules say later that that if the movement continues charger, his mount and defender have only 1 CA against each other, it doesn't say that if charger stops after the attack he can use rest of his CAs for other things besides moving. That part of the rule is there just to make sure that if movement continues defender or your mount can't hit second time. First rule already makes sure that charger can't hit more than once. Last part about being in close combat if you stop, just means that you don't have to engage, because you're already in combat and it doesn't say anything about getting your remaining CAs back for other uses than move.

EDIT: My interpretation of "attacks along the way" is that it simply means that you can continue moving after you have used your attack. Normally in combat you move first and attack after you have moved.

 

[strega]

You're correct, I was so focussed on the moving and attacking thing that I incorrectly added that in.

A charge requires/allows movement of 3x movement rate total (24m), each CA is up to 2x movement rate (16m)
So the corrected sequence for 3 CAs. Move (up to 16m), Move (up to 16m), Attack including some movement (up to 8m) as you need to be out of weapon reach of the defender when starting the Attack CA). Alternatively Move (up to 16m), Attack including some movement), Move (up to 16m). Both options cannot have total movement over 24m.

You'd have to stop short on the Move action that puts you into engagement range of the defender or you'd place yourself at a disadvantage versus the non-charger. Alternatively the GM may rule that a charge always requires a total amount of movement of 3x movement rate and allows the Attacker and Defender a CA each at the point of closest approach. These CA would occur in order of weapon reach then Initiative if the reach is the same.

The statement about attacking along the way seems impossible as the Movement in Combat on p 126 seems to state that movement stops when an attack is made. It implies you cannot attack and move. It's also unclear as the word Move is capitalised on p 126 whether this refers to move as in the act of moving (and is capitalised because it's after a colon) or the Combat Action Move.

There seems to be no option to make some movement, strike a blow, then make some more movement in one CA. However I'd see no problem in allowing it to happen if it seemed reasonable at the time.

The following bullet points on p 144 imply the possibility of either the Attack then use movement, or the move then Attack, as part of the same CA.
"• A mounted Adventurer has the choice of continuing (if he has enough movement left to get clear of the enemy’s Weapon Reach) after the Combat Action or stopping. If the charging
Adventurer is on foot, then the defender may choose to let the charger continue; if he does
not, then the charger is now engaged with the Defender and must stop moving.
• If the charging creature continues, the charge only allows a single Combat Action for the
Attacker, their mount (if combat capable) and the Defender during that round, because the
speed of the charging creature carries it clear of the engagement zone."

So some discrepancy between p 144 and 126/7.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

While I generally like Legend combat system, I think that charge rules are somewhat confusing and not as well written than rest of the combat rules.

My own interpretation is that charge is exception to normal movement/attack rules and it's wise to move out of enemy's reach if it's possible. In real life mounted lancer doesn't stop to strike his enemy and in similar manner I would allow him to continue his movement in game.

 

[strega]

The Charge rules were a problem in MRQII and completely revamped for Legend. The latest iteration in RQ6 seems to be a better, further, refinement.

Mostly it's an abstract problem as the issue infrequently comes up in a game, you declare a charge and the GM makes a ruling based on the circumstances in operation at that moment. It's almost never as clear cut as the charging across an open field idea would have you believe.