Character Generator
- Thread starter hariustrk
- Start date
Rusty_Unycorn
Mongoose
My dad did the same thing in the early days of Traveller. He had introduced something to Mark Miller that the guy liked, but when he (my dad) told Mr. Miller about the character generator that he had made, he got threatened with a lawsuit.
No idea what it's going to be like nowadays.
No idea what it's going to be like nowadays.
If I recall correctly, we (the fans) are not allowed to make Traveller software. Of course if we just use it ourselves, then there's no problem, but distributing fan-based TravWare is a no-no.
Back in the 80's, I remember writing a FORTH character generator. FORTH was (well, is) a semi-interpreted language, so you could type things like:
merchant man
<generates a single merchant character>
5 army men
<generates a list of 5 random army characters>
If I remember right (it was quite a while ago), the generator ran until you either died (which it just treated as "time to print") or didn't succeed in re-enlisting.
But that was back in the pre-internet days, and I digress.
AFAIK, we can't write (or more importantly, distribute) Traveller software without breaking the license. It's possible that some people have hacked together MgT compatible software though, like MgT compatible world generator scripts or even javascript driven webpages to do stuff like trade goods generation, but those people generally keep those tools on the down-low.
Back in the 80's, I remember writing a FORTH character generator. FORTH was (well, is) a semi-interpreted language, so you could type things like:
merchant man
<generates a single merchant character>
5 army men
<generates a list of 5 random army characters>
If I remember right (it was quite a while ago), the generator ran until you either died (which it just treated as "time to print") or didn't succeed in re-enlisting.
But that was back in the pre-internet days, and I digress.
AFAIK, we can't write (or more importantly, distribute) Traveller software without breaking the license. It's possible that some people have hacked together MgT compatible software though, like MgT compatible world generator scripts or even javascript driven webpages to do stuff like trade goods generation, but those people generally keep those tools on the down-low.
LimeyDragon
Banded Mongoose
You might just send Matthew an e-mail.. I know once there was talk about release something for Hero-Builder. But i can't find that thread anymore..
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
I won't swear to anything, but ISTR discussion that basically worked out to the issue with software being that by having the software to do the monkey work, you don't actually need the rules that the software implements, because the software implements them. That means that the software is a potential drain on possible sales, which, to a commercial licensee, is a Bad Thing.
Of course, I may be drastically oversimplifying...
Of course, I may be drastically oversimplifying...
andrew boulton
Mongoose
If it's for your own use and you don't tell anyone, there's not much Mongoose can do about it, but AIUI distributing it, even for free, is forbidden.
Generally speaking, this isn't the case for other versions of Traveller (as long as you don't charge), but it's always best to check with Marc first.
Generally speaking, this isn't the case for other versions of Traveller (as long as you don't charge), but it's always best to check with Marc first.
markbasham
Mongoose
Oh Erk,
Didn't realize this was the case, I though as all the content i used was in the SRD it was OK.
Anyone specific I should get in touch with to check, does anyone have contact details etc?
Cheers
Mark
Didn't realize this was the case, I though as all the content i used was in the SRD it was OK.
Anyone specific I should get in touch with to check, does anyone have contact details etc?
Cheers
Mark
markbasham
Mongoose
Aha,
After looking into this a little i think I'm ok according to the fair use policy in the SRD documents
So i suspect a character generator would be ok as well, as all that info is in the SRD, as long as you didn't sell it.
After looking into this a little i think I'm ok according to the fair use policy in the SRD documents
So i suspect a character generator would be ok as well, as all that info is in the SRD, as long as you didn't sell it.
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
I haven't read the OGL as originally written by WotC and modified/updated by MGP but:
Under the WotC version - software that came with only the information in the SRD was ok and even sellable -and at least one company (DMGenie) did ok with it. They included a editor/scripting language so people could implement what they wanted and people even had Yahoo Groups to circulate their files for many d20 books (including WotC's 3rd Ed Books).
Code Monkey Publishing had the license to make datafiles for the various WotC 3rd ed books (did so for eTools & the OpenSource character creator -forgot the name) - but this was allowed by WotC to laps as 4th ed was getting ready to be announced.
Under WotC's GSL (Game System License a.k.a. 4th ed) All software is verboten.. why? because they were working hot and heavy on their own char generator and didn't want competition from folks who might actually do a better job (remember, WotC has a nice history of big plans in the area of online & software projects - that get huge announcements then crash and burn).
BUT... While Traveller might be published through Mongoose Publishing with an OGL/SRD - Mark Miller/FFE actually owns the intellectual property and well, like many companies the bottom line is what counts - if you what you want for a license costs more than a company thinks they can pull in (plus fair profit margin) ain't no one gonna even push to put out software. KenzerCo, in the early days of Hackmaster 4th, (and by them I mean the owner David Kenzer) had to be beat over the head until he kind-of saw the light on the benefit of having a program to help people generate characters (that's one system where char gen can take way longer than a D&D 3rd ed char) - and still the license was a bit predatory (read: (IMO) I want my money all up front not from future sales). I was at the time good friends with the programmer and learned a lot behind that deal from him.
So... ya want to make a program for MGT char gen? go ahead
you want to give that program to your friends? eh, make sure they don't share it with others
You want to try and make a buck with it? Talk to Marc Miller and Matt @ MGP see if you can get a deal.
Again, all just my experience, as I understand the licenses under discussion, and what I personally know on certain historical points. Your mileage may vary and time in Jumpspace indeterminate.
Under the WotC version - software that came with only the information in the SRD was ok and even sellable -and at least one company (DMGenie) did ok with it. They included a editor/scripting language so people could implement what they wanted and people even had Yahoo Groups to circulate their files for many d20 books (including WotC's 3rd Ed Books).
Code Monkey Publishing had the license to make datafiles for the various WotC 3rd ed books (did so for eTools & the OpenSource character creator -forgot the name) - but this was allowed by WotC to laps as 4th ed was getting ready to be announced.
Under WotC's GSL (Game System License a.k.a. 4th ed) All software is verboten.. why? because they were working hot and heavy on their own char generator and didn't want competition from folks who might actually do a better job (remember, WotC has a nice history of big plans in the area of online & software projects - that get huge announcements then crash and burn).
BUT... While Traveller might be published through Mongoose Publishing with an OGL/SRD - Mark Miller/FFE actually owns the intellectual property and well, like many companies the bottom line is what counts - if you what you want for a license costs more than a company thinks they can pull in (plus fair profit margin) ain't no one gonna even push to put out software. KenzerCo, in the early days of Hackmaster 4th, (and by them I mean the owner David Kenzer) had to be beat over the head until he kind-of saw the light on the benefit of having a program to help people generate characters (that's one system where char gen can take way longer than a D&D 3rd ed char) - and still the license was a bit predatory (read: (IMO) I want my money all up front not from future sales). I was at the time good friends with the programmer and learned a lot behind that deal from him.
So... ya want to make a program for MGT char gen? go ahead
you want to give that program to your friends? eh, make sure they don't share it with others
You want to try and make a buck with it? Talk to Marc Miller and Matt @ MGP see if you can get a deal.
Again, all just my experience, as I understand the licenses under discussion, and what I personally know on certain historical points. Your mileage may vary and time in Jumpspace indeterminate.
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Rules are non-copyrightable:
There's a reason the product identity exception in the OGL covers only proper names and such: ...product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures; characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark....
3I stuff is under copyright. General terms like skill names are more dubiously protected; if you could copyright 'Engineering: Jump Drive', then the Asimov estate might want to have a word with you...
There's a reason the product identity exception in the OGL covers only proper names and such: ...product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures; characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark....
3I stuff is under copyright. General terms like skill names are more dubiously protected; if you could copyright 'Engineering: Jump Drive', then the Asimov estate might want to have a word with you...
Matt Wilson
Mongoose
I don't think the SRD includes rules for generating stats, does it? It also doesn't include any of the career information.
Unless it's been updated since I last looked at it.
Unless it's been updated since I last looked at it.
Matt Wilson said:
No, but that's a rule. They might be able to trademark 'rolling 2D6 for stats', but as a rule, it doesn't fall under copyright. If it did, the people who make this: http://rpggeek.com/rpg/14388/2d6-roleplaying-system might be in a spot of trouble.
The purpose of the SRD is to facilitate creating supplements. That way, if you want to make say, "Supplement XXI: Transhuman", you can just do it. Leaving out stat rolling means that you have to traverse a bunch of legalese. Neither bad, nor good, just a fact.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
You can do a lot with an Excel Spreadsheet. I created one which can roll up the planetary stats for a whole subsector.
IanBruntlett
Emperor Mongoose
Hi Tom,
I use LibreOffice on Ubuntu Linux. Could you send me a copy of your spreadsheet? I'll PM you my email address
BW,
Ian
Tom Kalbfus said:
I use LibreOffice on Ubuntu Linux. Could you send me a copy of your spreadsheet? I'll PM you my email address
BW,
Ian
