Chapter organisation

[TrippyHippy]

With the removal of the Spaceship design chapter (for complete inclusion in High Guard, I know, which I don't have a problem with personally) would it not make more sense to include the Spaceship profiles before the Starship Operations chapter? It would help with knowing what stats are being referred to.

On a similar issue, why not have the Trade rules after the World Creation rules?

There is also the issue of where the Psionic rules should go - in my view either right (like an optional appendix) at the back, or closer to the character generation chapter.

In all, maybe the various chapters could be arranged like so:

INTRODUCTION
TRAVELLER CREATION
SKILLS AND TASKS
COMBAT
PSIONICS
EQUIPMENT
VEHICLES
COMMON SPACECRAFT
SPACECRAFT OPERATIONS
SPACE COMBAT
WORLD AND UNIVERSE CREATION
ENCOUNTERS AND DANGERS
TRADE
THE SINDAL SUBSECTOR

This way, you are blocking the chapters in order of function essentially: The character generation chapters (along with skills and tasks), the hardware section (including vehicles and starship stuff) and finally the world creation stuff (including an example sector) at the back. In a way, it harkens back to the original three little black books.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Very good. I like that chapter order much better.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Well, I'm happy someone likes!

On a side note, what about calling the Combat chapter more explicitly 'Personal Combat' too?

 

[Cugel]

Another vote for your recommended chapter order.

 

[DickNervous]

Another vote for your recommended chapter order.

And another...

 

[-Daniel-]

Nice organization. Add my vote for the reorganized order.

 

[Stainless]

Looks good to me.

 

[NOLATrav]

Hearty +1!

 

[MongooseMatt]

Was about to implement this, but can see lots of reasons not to

What does everyone else think? Want more opinions...

 

[-Daniel-]

Was about to implement this, but can see lots of reasons not to

What does everyone else think? Want more opinions...

Would you be willing to share reasons not to make changes in the order? It might help some of us rethink our opinions if we knew what the real concerns or impacts might be.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I would really like to hear from a NEWBIE on the order. As an old-timer, I understand the references (usually) before they are explained, but I can also see how a new person might find that difficult.

In general I like the suggested order above as long as all the references (especially page references) get updated correctly.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Would you be willing to share reasons not to make changes in the order? It might help some of us rethink our opinions if we knew what the real concerns or impacts might be.

Well...

To my mind (which may not be the most logical in the world, but it makes sense to me!)...

Combat needs to follow skills, as it is a continuation of What Travellers Do.

Encounters needs to follow Combat, because they both represent hazards the referee will place in front of players.

Equipment, Vehicles, Spacecraft Ops, Space Combat and Common Spacecraft all follow a common progression, and the Space stuff needs to be kept together (else the latter could go right next to Combat - but that would mean bumping Vehicles and... well, you see my issue there!).

Psionics is not core, and needs to be kept 'out of the way'.

It does make sense for Trade to go after World Creation - but then I figure Sindal should go right after World Creation (being full of worlds), and Sindal should certainly be the last chapter of the book.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Combat needs to follow skills, as it is a continuation of What Travellers Do.

Agreed and that is where it is!

Encounters needs to follow Combat, because they both represent hazards the referee will place in front of players.

But encounters is really about overcoming challenges as you travel through other worlds. It's a part of world building in effect - building on from the World Creation. I mean, how can you encounter anything if you don't know where you are going yet? Combat isn't quite the same thing because it is really just applying skills in a specific situation. It denotes a training, but isn't dependent on travelling anywhere yet.

Equipment, Vehicles, Spacecraft Ops, Space Combat and Common Spacecraft all follow a common progression, and the Space stuff needs to be kept together (else the latter could go right next to Combat - but that would mean bumping Vehicles and... well, you see my issue there!).

They don't follow a natural progression if you have taken out Spaceship Design. The examples of Common Spaceships need to be bumped up before Spacecraft Operations and Space Combat. If you don't know the component parts of a spaceship, how would you know what parts are being referred to during those operations? It's like putting the Skills Chapter before character generation. Moreover, Common Spacecraft build on from Vehicles - as they are types of Vehicles for space - and are a buyable commodity in the same way both Vehicles and Equipment are.

Psionics is not core, and needs to be kept 'out of the way'.

Then why have it in the Core rules at all? Psionics are referred to in the Character generation chapter, and they do include more character options - optional or not. Again, though it's a form of training or personal development and is most closely linked to skills and character generation.

It does make sense for Trade to go after World Creation - but then I figure Sindal should go right after World Creation (being full of worlds), and Sindal should certainly be the last chapter of the book.

By extension, then it also makes sense for Encounters to follow on from World Creation too. A Traveller sandbox is essentially a series of encounters built into a variety of worlds.

In effect, by ordering it into the way I have done above, you are breaking down the core rules into three parts:
1) Create a character (and know how to use skills, etc)
2) Get stuff that allows you to travel and explore
3) Create worlds and encounters to explore (with an example).

 

[Stainless]

I have to say I agree with TrippyHippy's logic. In addition, animal encounters comes after world generation in MegaTraveller and I think CT as well (don't have the books to hand at the moment).

 

[-Daniel-]

Would you be willing to share reasons not to make changes in the order? It might help some of us rethink our opinions if we knew what the real concerns or impacts might be.

Well...

To my mind (which may not be the most logical in the world, but it makes sense to me!)...

Combat needs to follow skills, as it is a continuation of What Travellers Do.

Encounters needs to follow Combat, because they both represent hazards the referee will place in front of players.

Equipment, Vehicles, Spacecraft Ops, Space Combat and Common Spacecraft all follow a common progression, and the Space stuff needs to be kept together (else the latter could go right next to Combat - but that would mean bumping Vehicles and... well, you see my issue there!).

Psionics is not core, and needs to be kept 'out of the way'.

It does make sense for Trade to go after World Creation - but then I figure Sindal should go right after World Creation (being full of worlds), and Sindal should certainly be the last chapter of the book.

Thank you for indulging me in my curiosity. I could follow the logic you are using and for the most part it makes sense to me.

I do have to admit I keep forgetting that Psionics are the ugly step child of Traveller. It is folded into the setting thanks to their use by the Zhodani for example, but some feel loth to call them "core". In light of the view that Psionics are outside of core I understand why it is where it is.

Bottom line for me, I would like to see an altered order like TrippyHippy's, but in the end, I will work with what ever you end up with.

 

[-Daniel-]

In effect, by ordering it into the way I have done above, you are breaking down the core rules into three parts:
1) Create a character (and know how to use skills, etc)
2) Get stuff that allows you to travel and explore
3) Create worlds and encounters to explore (with an example).

This is exactly why I liked what you suggested and would love to see it used. However, I realize Mathew needs to do what he needs to do.