Chaos Magic and Slaadi.

[Qurilion]

Hi.

I was wondering about the impact of Chaos Magic, and the ease of which it is used, with different races; in this case, the Slaad.

The entry in Monster Manual calls them "Creatures of Chaos", and that notion is generally enforced in other material (Or at least I think so). If so, how would they respond to chaos magic? How would they use it? And how would they suffer from the consequences?

Does anyone have any opinion or ideas?

 

[thedarkelf007]

Maybe an affinity for chaos with a bonus to their crafting checks?

Or simple add a free chaos magic feat for creatures of the chaos subtype such that each chaos creature who becomes a chaos mage has a range of options upon starting that can make them different from other similar mages.

I'd be tempted to have a chart of Chaos Feats (and related) and simply roll for NPC's...

I had a chaos mage in my current game, though we used the character backgrounds at the start to flavour the character...

 

[FallenDruid]

What's your opinion about the power level/brokenness of the class?

 

[thedarkelf007]

For an experienced gamer, it is quite broken.

While they can't make permanent effects, they can do a lot of different things.

But Chaos Magic is a lot like Polymorph...

"I cast my spell" ... hmmm I'll add this component... that mod... this enhancer... minutes later... sometimes tens of minutes later and the spell is crafted and cast...

Pre-done spells work great, though sometimes require minor tweaking, but is much like standard spellcasting...

making something new up, takes a game break, where everyone rolls their eyes while the chaos mage builds a spell to end the encounter they just started...

This is almost as bad as the character pausing to cast polymorph... then flicking through books to find the creature they are turning into.

What I have done to counter this, is if they can't tell me what they are casting, allowing a brief pause, then they are considered to have hald their action and they can jump in when they have figured it out...

the same for polymorph ;-)

This stops the creativity on the spot, and makes them plan before casting, and not during casting. ;-)

Though if they have started casting, I simply have them casting over multiple rounds (reducing DC for chaos magic) and after being hit a couple of times they learn to cast when prepared...

Though the players found it frustrating that nearly any combat could be solved by the raw power of the chaos mage.

This is not too much different from the raw power of a psion.

Or the many different abilities of a Ghaele (which the player took as his next character)

Yes it can be played and overused, yes there are major flaws in the character in group dynamics, and yes it is overpowered for its level.

But is it more broken than other "legal" combinations. No.

If I was to play one again in my campaign, I would increase the DC for damage effects, or at least convince the player not to abuse them.

But for the other effects, like the ability to change somethings shape, I would look at having them as instantaneous effects and not duration for the reason stated in other treads about armour returning to the person it was "melted" off and things like that.

The ability to return an object back to its origional form after changing its composite, should be a harder thing to do and aligned more with Lawful or static magic unless its an enhancer, which would simply loose the enhancement.

I hope this is not to convoluted a response

 

[FallenDruid]

I've run into that problem (the one of taking too long to decide on what to do) with my own Chaos mage...it also, Ironically enough, is one of the reasons I didn't take improved initiative...while the rest of the group is acting, I think about my spell.

Also usually never try to do really wacky spells without running it past the DM first, (thugh he had some interesting things to say on the subject of Permancy and Chaos magic when I mentioned it...and on rifts from Pandemonium to Prime) and I usually stick to covering our groups back and let the battle twinks to the heavy lifting...unless we get into serious trouble.

...I still haven't used the pink rabbit spell... *sniffles*

 

[FallenDruid]

Okay, I have decided to retire my 12th level Chaos Mage.

The reason behind this, is that I, 12th level Chaos Mage, a 15th lvl uber combat twink, a 15th Level Fighter, a 9th Level Fighter, a fifth level Cleric, and a third level War mage managed to edge out a win over an Elder Brain (Illithid) Lich, while only losing three of our party members (The War Mage, and the ninth and 15th level fighters.

 

[thedarkelf007]

The best thing chaos mages make, are NPC's...

Though I'm sure they could sit well in a party if they played the booster and the helper over the combat killing machine they seemed to fit sooooo well into

 

[thedarkelf007]

I had another thought discussed with a friend about the chaos mage and how it can be unbalanced in a game environment.

We were thinking of having caps for the dice, based on a DC mod.

No mod 1d6
+5 DC 1d6/5 levels
+2 DC to bring the levels down by 1..

current damage 1d6/level at +13 to DC of the spell. Where as this hurts the Chaos Mages ability to deal raw damage, it does incourage him to use alt means for spell use.

Neither of us liked the way the chaos mage turned into a one trick wonder to always use the same combat spells, as they were the most effective party ability in all combat encounters...

The chaos mage in my game was Mr Combat, after discussing this with him, he would have tried to come up with other ways to make the more use out of his rolls.

It's almost to a point where his retired Chaos Mage PC will make a re-appearance as an NPC. It will be interesting to see how it works out

 

[FallenDruid]

Admittedly, when in the middle of combat, it's easier to do one trick pony damage effects than it is to do other things...but trust me. Damage is the least worrying of the effects I was doing.


No, the real horror show is when you actually look at the wording on the Chaotic Reconstruction (DC 30) Transformation effect.

You can warp reality to the same extent as a wish for a limited duration. With no XP cost. At 15th level, I had a rough 80% to successfully warp reality. What that means, is that I then instantly had access to EVERY SINGLE 6th level and lower spell. Effectively at will. Realize that Heal is a sixth Level Instantaneous spell. Realize that Monstrous Regeneration is a fifth level spell, and that having it up for seven hours is worth risking some serious failures...especially with heal on tap...and with well worded triggers...not that hard.

Chaotic Reconstruction...gah. Hey, I know, let's warp reality and make that 75' radius spot over there contiguous with, say, the Elemental Plane of Fire. For fifteen rounds. Oooh! Undead that are immune to fire. Hey, let's make it contiguous to the positive energy plane, instead! No, wait, let's rip open a hole in reality from Prime straight to the Positive Energy plane, instead!

Actually, the most sickening one I ever really came up with was this gem:

Stasis Breach

Effects: Chaotic Reconstruction 30
Area: Single Target 0
Range: Medium 5
Duration: Instantaneous 0
Save: Normal 0

Total Cast DC: 35

This weave releases all of the pent up Chaos energy inherent in all matter, normally contained by the strict law of Order, instantaneously. As this is hellishly difficult to do, the chaos mage is limited to effecting one ounce of matter per level. (This is roughly equivalent to throwing, at 12th level, 340 grams of anti-matter at something)

Technically, I could have had it affect one hundred pounds of materiel/level...but who the hell wants to play someone who has a by round access to gigaton range weaponry?

Phantasmal Clone

Effect: Major Materialization +20, Moderate Domination +5
Area: Burst +5
Range: Touch +0
Duration: By Round +5
Save: Normal (Will Partial)

Cast DC: 35

The chaos mage creates an illusory version of him or herself as a character of any class up to his own level in Chaos Magic in level. The illusion will act independently of the chaos mage in the area of effect, and will deal damage as suited for its method of attack. The illusion is solid to touch, produces sound, and even smells right. Those struck by the illusion recieve a will saving throw to realize it is an illusion, if successful, they take only one point of damage per die.

---

Mirror, Mirror rorrim ,rorriM

Chaotic Reconstruction +30
Area: Single Target 0
Range: Touch
Duration: By Minute +10
Save: Normal
Continued Concentration: Yes
Total DC: 40

The Chaos Mage warps space and time to bring another version of him or herself from an alternate dimension. The Alternate recieves a Will saving throw to resist this effect. This alternate has the same number of class levels, HD, and roughly equivalent gear as the Chaos Mage, but is not neccessarily the same race, sex, or alignment as the chaos mage. It's possible to summon a specific version of the Chaos Mage, but you have to meet that version first, and it's pretty much a crap shoot as to what you get when you summon a random version from another plane - DM's Call.

Fluffy Pink animal

Transformation: Total Effect DC 20
Duration - By round +5
Saves: Normal (Will Negate) +0
Range: Close (20 ft + 5 ft/2 levels) +1
Area: Single Target +0
Trigger: When the target attacks someone allied with the chaos mage. -5

Causes the target to transform into a cute, fluffy animal, typically a bunny rabbit, or almost any dog of the 'toy' breeds, subject to the whims of the Caster...or possibly Chaos itself. No one is quite sure. The only thing that is constatnt, is that, for some reason, the subjects hair always turns pink....


The Book of:

Effects: Chaotic Reconstruction, Major Domination (DC 30+8)
Area: Single Target
Duration: By Minute +10
Save: Normal
Trigger: Very Rare (4 Specifications) -20

Total Cast DC: 28

This spell weave turns the target into The Book of (Insert Name here). This book contains the story of the target's life, fully illustrated, written in beautiful spidery letters in the targets native tongue. The Caster of the spell can read it even if he is not literate in that language. For the duration of the spell, anyone may read the work as they would any other.

The expression of the work is keyed to the target's true nature, not the personality they present to the world.

The transformed being remains fully aware of all that is going on, but is unable to interact with the world and may take no action.

Monowire

Materialisation DC 10
Two targets DC 3
Close Range DC 1
Saving DC +2 DC 5

Total DC = 19
One round: +2
By round; +5
Minute: +10

Creates a monofilament wire between two objects within 20ft +5ft/two levels of the caster.

 

[thedarkelf007]

I believe there are effects that the chaos mage simply can't cast. And I believe healing is one of them.

Also with the restrictions on polymorph being introduced into 3.5, I would relook at the ability to shape things and maybe add some extra complications.

I'm not sure you would have been able to do all the things you have listed in one of my games, but I would have read through the different effects before the game and ruled on them during play.

But in the end the more you use the power, the closer to destruction you get

 

[FallenDruid]

I believe there are effects that the chaos mage simply can't cast. And I believe healing is one of them.

Very true, and, according to the QChaos Mage, you're right, to the same extent that you would be right if you said that wizards can't cast Healing spells.

Chaos mages cannot weave healing spells.

However, according to the book (points at relevant section), Chaos mages have an ability that lets them twist reality to their whim...like taffy. It's possible to use the Sor/Wiz 9 spell Wish to do everything from healing someone to raising them from the dead. Personnally, I'd allow the healing, and even the raising from the dead. But, there's a twist to the raising from the dead...they'll only be alive for the duration of the chaos magic spell. And there's always that odd chance you picked the wrong soul to shove back into the body...

At the same time, saying that they just can't do it, for whatever reason, is a valid house rule, and may be something of a cap on their long term durability, unless their cleric likes them. (The cleric in my party hated my character...until it was the two of us, alone, outnumbered, and very nearly outgunned...)

And the really freaky thing is...my chaos mage, had, at 15th level, yet to take the second step on her path of chaos. Admittedly, that's more due to random luck than anything else, but, still...considering each session I was casting between twenty and thirty weaves, sometimes more...Chaos likes me.

Oh...forgot one. Never got around to formally naming it, but there's a section in transformation about changing the state of matter...dropping all the gas in a 50ft radius sphere down an energy state to liquid...great fun.

 

[thedarkelf007]

lol... I've got to get the book out and create another chaos mage....

It will be fun to see how well it hold up.