Centauri Demos: Presented for playtesting

[emperorpenguin]

EDITED FOR REVISED STATS

Hi all

As a huge Centauri fan(head?) I've been a little tearful at the abscence from the game of the Demos(the souped up Vorchan from season 5) and have come up with what I hope/think is a fair version of it.
We NEED this ship, no Demos is like no hot jhala or fine bravari

So here's my Demos with explanation afterwards.....

Priority Level: Raid
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45*
Hull: 5
Damage: 18/5
Crew: 20/6
Craft: None
Special Rules: Jump Point, Interceptors 1
In Service: 2241+

Weapons
Plasma Accelerator: Range 12 Arc F AD 4 Special: Double Damage, Super AP
Twin Particle Array: Range 8 Arc F AD 8 Special: Twin-Linked
Ballistic Torpedoes: Range 15 Arc F AD 5 Special: Double Damage, Slow Loading, Precise, Super AP

Okay now for my reasoning

I made it a Raid level ship as the Centauri already have oodles of choice at Skirmish level.
I gave it interceptors because we clearly see them shoot down Drazi missiles in season 5.
I reduced the Twin Array firepower slightly and gave it the torpedoes. After a lot of deliberation I decided to keep these short range in keeping with the attack ethos of the vessel and because we see the Centauri launch them at quite close range after the Drazi have fired their missiles. Also the Darkner should be the long range Raid level ship.

This weapon needed to be beefy though, we saw them shred Drazi ships easily so I went for Double Damage. They had to be slow loading. Precise in common with other missiles.

So any feedback? Im hoping some of you will playtest this and tell me what you think and hopefully Mongoose (if they're not already working on a Demos) might give it a whirl too?

 

[Mongoose_Carnifex]

I'm afraid my initial impression is 'too powerful for a Raid ship'. Compare it with the Drazi Solarhawk, a Raid ship of less resilience (no interceptors)and, despite having a 6AD triple damage slow-loading Super AP beam, the Solarhawk still has less firepower (and it's boresighted) than your take on the Demos as well. Looking at other Raid ships as well, like the Hyperion and Darkner, the Demos just looks plain better.

 

[Obsidian]

I agree with the assesment of "Too powerful for raid". If you take a look at other raid level ships (Which can be easily done in the online shipviewer though I need to alphabetize the list...), it is much too strong.

Here's a thought on a few revisions(in bold)

Priority Level: Raid
Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45*
Hull: 5
Damage: 18/5
Crew: 24/7
Craft: None
Special Rules: Jump Point, Interceptors 1
In Service: 2241+

Weapons
Twin Particle Array: Range 8 Arc F AD 10 Special: Twin-Linked
Ballistic Torpedoes: Range 15 Arc F AD 4 Special: Triple Damage, Slow Loading, Precise, Super AP

Basically it is swapping out the Plasma Accelerator in favor of the Torpedoes and Interceptors. Does this change necessarily move it from Skirmish to Raid? I'm not sure.

EDIT:
Just as an FYI, I'm not basing these changes on any published information for the Demos. I have no idea about its technical specs from any source other than what has been presented in these forums. I'm simply trying to tweak the presented design such that it can fit into the game at an appropriate level.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I'm afraid my initial impression is 'too powerful for a Raid ship'. Compare it with the Drazi Solarhawk, a Raid ship of less resilience (no interceptors)and, despite having a 6AD triple damage slow-loading Super AP beam, the Solarhawk still has less firepower (and it's boresighted) than your take on the Demos as well. Looking at other Raid ships as well, like the Hyperion and Darkner, the Demos just looks plain better.

But compared to the Centurion-Prefect it seems okay. Take the forward arc

The Demos has 4 dice Double damage & Super AP
The Prefect has 4 dice AP & Double Damage

The Demos has 8 dice Twin-linked
The Prefect has 12 dice twin-linked

The Demos has 5 dice Triple damage, Precise, AP & Slow loading
The Prefect has 4 dice AP, Beam & Double Damage

If anything I'd perhaps drop the Ballistic torpedo to Double Damage and maybe push it up to Super AP. Another option is keep the damage and crew at Vorchan levels.

I considered Obsidian's idea of dropping the Plasma Accelerator but like he said I found it was only Skirmish level, and the Great Maker knows I don't want any more Skirmish level Centauri ships! :lol:

 

[Mongoose_Carnifex]

But compared to the Centurion-Prefect it seems okay. Take the forward arc

The Demos has 4 dice Double damage & Super AP
The Prefect has 4 dice AP & Double Damage

The Demos has 8 dice Twin-linked
The Prefect has 12 dice twin-linked

The Demos has 5 dice Triple damage, Precise, AP & Slow loading
The Prefect has 4 dice AP, Beam & Double Damage

However, the Centurion Prefect is significantly less manoeuverable (less speed and fewer turns) and is additionally less resilient against many weapons as it lacks any interceptors and has a lower damage score. The Precise ability on a triple damage gun for the Demos is also a fairly significant bonus as it really makes the most of the extra damage inflicted with many critical hits.

 

[Pauly_D]

I think the Demos stats are great, the only suggestion i can say is reduce the Ballistic Torpedoes to AD3 and i think the rest can stay the same

 

[emperorpenguin]

However, the Centurion Prefect is significantly less manoeuverable (less speed and fewer turns) and is additionally less resilient against many weapons as it lacks any interceptors and has a lower damage score. The Precise ability on a triple damage gun for the Demos is also a fairly significant bonus as it really makes the most of the extra damage inflicted with many critical hits.

You could say the same about the Darkner. The Prefect is designed for close in fighting and has all round firepower.
As I said I'd actually leave the damage at Vorchan levels, I was going to do that but second guessed myself.
There are EA ships at Patrol, Skirmish and Raid level capable of taking triple damage, precise, super AP weapons too

I don't agree with it being less than Double Damage and in that case should probably be Super AP


Out of interest why have so many variant ships been designed and yet this one which actually appeared in the series was left out? :shock:

 

[maco5555]

At last the Centauri Demos I been asking about this ship alot

A few things the ship service date is wrong it was around after the Narn Centauri War 2259 onwards

If we go by the Agents of game version it should be armed with A Twin Heavy Array

but the ship looks ok to me maybe making it a battle level ship might be the way to go then it would justfile the heavy weapons load

but I will bow to the people with great understanding when it come to these things

 

[emperorpenguin]

The in service date is taken from B5 wars 2nd edition....

It's nowhere near powerful enough to be battle level, a Primus would have it for breakfast!

 

[maco5555]

I Play Test it this weekend and see how it goes and I give you any feed back from that game on it

the service date was that I allways thought the ship came about because of the drake presents on Centuari Prime well that what my cousin says he a big fan of the AOG version and he as all the source books LOL

But I think you should use the Heavy Twin Array use the same stats but change the name I think it just makes it stand out more

But as before I also wanted this ship and was sad it was not in the Centauri Fleet List So nice one mate you made me happy now I can really kick some narn butt LOL

 

[emperorpenguin]

Cheers for the offer to playtest!

I was supposed to tonight but my oppo wimped out!

The Heavy Array is featured on the Secundus, you can see it on Obsidian's shipviewer. It's basically double damage.

I didn't want to add that one but if you did then the plasma accelerator would have to go in the interests of balance

 

[Rigeld]

There are EA ships at Patrol, Skirmish and Raid level capable of taking triple damage, precise, super AP weapons too

I don't agree with it being less than Double Damage and in that case should probably be Super AP

The EA ships (usually) have fewer Damage than other ships at thier PL. They also dont have as many AD in one arc.

 

[Tsanuri]

Hi,

Personally as a centari player I've been waiting with bated breath for the Demos. It must be Raid level as it's on-screen performance and the description in the background source hype it up as a battle ship. As for what to give it in ACtA I would go with Obsidians suggestion, as it gives the Centauri a good missile ship while not putting too many guns on for the manouverability the ship displeys.

Keef.
*looking forward to the Centauri list in A Sky full of Stars*

 

[Anonymous]

the demos should look the same as the vorchan but be better.

the blistic torps are not missiles so should not have the fire alternit rule.
the blasic torp should not be tripple but double. at most.

say AD 2, range 25, AP double.

or AD 6, range 25, A,P double, every other turn.

may be you should make it battle. ???

though i'm to new at this game to undear stand it well.

 

[Anonymous]

the blistic torps are not missiles so should not have the fire alternit rule..

What makes you say they're not missiles? :?
Watching them fired in season 5 its pretty clear that's exactly what they are, a nasty warhead enclosed in a shell casing

 

[frobisher]

the blistic torps are not missiles so should not have the fire alternit rule..

What makes you say they're not missiles? :?
Watching them fired in season 5 its pretty clear that's exactly what they are, a nasty warhead enclosed in a shell casing

They're "round" - missiles are "pointy"

Missiles are "generally" accepted to be less adavanced than topedoes in SF settings.

 

[lastbesthope]

They're "round" - missiles are "pointy"

Missiles are "generally" accepted to be less adavanced than topedoes in SF settings.

Well the dictionary definition allows the use of the word missile to cover anything thrown or fired, all the way down to rotten fruit. Also, in space with no atmosphere, there is no reason for missiles to be pointy (other than aesthetic ones), in fact it would make using radar and IR seekers a lot esasier if the nose cones of missiles didn't need to be such pointy aerodynamic shapes.

LBH

 

[emperorpenguin]

the blistic torps are not missiles so should not have the fire alternit rule..

What makes you say they're not missiles? :?
Watching them fired in season 5 its pretty clear that's exactly what they are, a nasty warhead enclosed in a shell casing

They're "round" - missiles are "pointy"

Missiles are "generally" accepted to be less adavanced than topedoes in SF settings.

As LBH said the only reason they're pointy currently is that they need to be aerodynamic for use in atmosphere.

I've never considered missiles less advanced than torps, if anything vice versa as torps historically travelled in straight lines

 

[frobisher]

I've never considered missiles less advanced than torps, if anything vice versa as torps historically travelled in straight lines

But then so did missiles if you think back to WWII.

Now take something like "Hunt for Red October" or "Crimson Tide" and you'll see the behaviour of modern torpedoes.

But if you look at how the "pointy" missiles behave in B5, they pretty much go in a straight line when we see them, whereas the Demos' payload doesn't quite.

Also, it's a hangover from B5Wars as well, which, let's face it, originated the Demos. Torpedoes are a more advanced ballistic weapon than the Missile which can't benefit from the launching vessel's sensors.

 

[Nomad]

The Vorchan as presented in ACTA is pretty close to the Demos already, IMHO.

The 'Original' Vorchan in B5W was basically a fast attack boat which relied on the Plasma Acc for anti-ship punch and had a pair of Twin Arrays for short-range self-defence work.

When these ships started to form the backbone of the Centauri fleet and the Ballistic Torpedo appeared, Agents of Gaming introduced the Demos with the much more lethal Heavy Arrays and the BalTorp, which was primarily a multi-warhead anti-fighter weapon. The Demos is more of a Light Cruiser.

The ACTA Vorchan's 10 Twin-linked AD are what I'd expect to see from a Demos. There's no reason that ACTA should slavishly follow B5W, so I'd suggest the Demos in ACTA is simply a Vorchan trading a bit of speed (down to a 12" move) to add;

Ballistic Torpedo: Range 15, F arc, 2 AD, Super AP, Slow-Loading, Anti-Fighter

With all other stats remaining unchanged.