Cash is king.

steve98052 said:
I don't see stored-value cards (or "credit sticks") as a particularly satisfactory solution. Imperial currency is supposedly forgery-proof, at least within the range of technology one can find in the Imperium and immediate vicinity. It's pretty much universal throughout the Imperium. It's available in a wide range of values, from a quarter-Credit to 10k Credits. Given that a Credit was defined as about US$1 in 1977 (US$3.86 today), that's a range of US$0.96 or GB£0.60 or €0.71 for the quarter-Credit coin to US$38600 or GB£24000 or €28400 for the 10k Credit note. That's a lot of convenience, and doesn't require an assortment of specialized stored-value card readers. About the only place where Imperial Credits aren't entirely useful is very small-value transactions on poor worlds; for that, one would probably change some of one's credits into local sub-Credit coins.

A credit-stick could have two key advantages:

1. By requiring positive identification to use, theft is less profitable.
2. If it was stolen, there is a possibility to get the funds back (eventually).

My way of handling things is effectively to deposit credits into the local bank upon arrival (which funds a debit card), and then "cash out" into a credit stick on departure. Each credit stick is useful only to deposit in an account on a particular world or worlds chosen at the time the funds are cashed out (in general, as part of choosing your flight plan I assume funds are being prepared to transfer to the destination unless otherwise specified). Depositing the credit stick always deposits the full value and destroys the data (so you couldn't deposit it on two different worlds).

In the case it's stolen, damaged, or lost, a new stick can be reissued, but only after communicating with the world it was issued and every world on which the stick was usable - effectively, a stop payment message is sent, and every world must affirm that payment is successfully stopped (i.e. the stick hasn't already been used and can no longer be used on that world). At that point the original stick is worthless and a new stick can be issued to the owner.
 
While I do believe that in the general case this is a problem that was solved thousands of years ago, and said so in a previous post, there will be gaps in any solution. Any distributed system of trust and accountability will be vulnerable to exceptional circumstances and exceptional individuals.

I’m particularly thinking of characters like Slippery Jim in Harry Harrison’s Stainless Steel Rat stories. While for the most part the law will eventually catch up with anyone trying to always keep one step ahead of the news of their swindles, it’s still theoretically possible to keep dodging the consequences through changes of identity, changes of habits and behaviour, and lying low. This would be very hard to do through and would require considerable ingenuity and even more discipline. It’s a potentially fun and challenging element to introduce into a game, but perhaps not as an ongoing and central activity in a game. You could though have a shady character they conducted such a scam in the past and might occasionally have to take action to avoid getting tangled up in the consequences, such as always presenting themselves under a particular assumed identity when in on a particular planet, avoiding doing any business with certain banks or companies, watching out for certain private investigators who’s companies have the character on file but under a certain name, etc.

Simon Hibbs
 
All you have to ask is, "What would YOU do if it was your money you were handing out?" Banks would know of all the "holes" in the info courier routes and would act accordingly. In short, if a Tramp Captain could think of it, the banks long ago closed that "loophole"...

Not least because it's ultimately all going to come back on the bank. If you allow someone to draw on credit you don't know if they had, then the people they spend it with will still have received payment in good faith - presumably marked up (physically or electronically) with the bank's seal - so they're not going to be left out of pocket once the dust settles...

In the case it's stolen, damaged, or lost, a new stick can be reissued, but only after communicating with the world it was issued and every world on which the stick was usable - effectively, a stop payment message is sent, and every world must affirm that payment is successfully stopped (i.e. the stick hasn't already been used and can no longer be used on that world). At that point the original stick is worthless and a new stick can be issued to the owner.

Fine in theory, but if you wait for confirmation, that 'stop notice' could take months to process. I doubt a noble would accept being without his Imperial Express Black card for more than a couple of weeks...

Of course, the big advantage of the 'credit stick' is that you essentially carry your account data with you. TL12+ computers supposedly have functionally unlimited storage capacity, so your 'credit card' can hold your updated financial records itself (backed up every time you connect it to the bank, of course). This also allows you to cover the situation where a new customer turns up at a branch on a world before that branch is ever aware that the customer has an account. Theoretically, you can't pull off a fraud on multiple worlds because you need to use the card - which records the change of account balance - to make the transfer/withdrawal.
Of course, if you can somehow 'create' a fake card with appropriate encryption, you can beat the system, but (a) the bank is going to pay for really, really, really good encryption for something like this, and (b) is (as F33D says) going to be massively suspicious of someone it's never heard of turning up out of the blue and asking to withdraw MCr10 in cash.

That's not to say the system's perfect, but - as with most things in Traveller, as it is today, compromising the systems security is done via people, not via 'hacking'; getting someone already has access to the system to issue perfectly genuine cards, for example.
 
locarno24 said:
In the case it's stolen, damaged, or lost, a new stick can be reissued, but only after communicating with the world it was issued and every world on which the stick was usable - effectively, a stop payment message is sent, and every world must affirm that payment is successfully stopped (i.e. the stick hasn't already been used and can no longer be used on that world). At that point the original stick is worthless and a new stick can be issued to the owner.
Fine in theory, but if you wait for confirmation, that 'stop notice' could take months to process. I doubt a noble would accept being without his Imperial Express Black card for more than a couple of weeks...
And this spoils one hypothetical advantage of stored value devices over cash. If one loses the device, it may be possible to recover the stored value eventually, but that could be a long time. The ability to eventually recover the value in a lost stored-value device is an advantage, but all it takes is a few instances of important customers complaining about a severe inconvenience before banks decide that they're more trouble than they're worth.

One possible solution is to update the usable region of a stored value devices every time someone holding one visits a port with an appropriate bank branch or correspondent bank relationship. For example, if I get stored value card on Regina, it might by default be set to be usable in ports that are within one jump by xboat or by scheduled courier routes. That would mean Extolay, Ruie, Jenghe, Hefry, Dinomn, Roup, Yori, and Regina itself -- but not Forboldn, Dinom, Wypoc, Djinni (assuming "D" or lower starports don't have regular courier service), or anything beyond Jump-2 other than the xboat-linked Roup.

If I travel, I'll want to let the bank know, so they can adjust the range of worlds that need to be contacted to allow for a stop notice to be sent out and confirmed in the event that I lose the card. For example, if I travel to Efate by a Jump-1 route, and tell the bank, they'll change the settings on the account so that there's no need to seek confirmation from Dinomn. (It might still take a while to straighten out a problem on Forboldn, Knorbes, and Whanga, given their rudimentary starports and modest tech levels.) If I change plans and divert to Moughas on someone's Jump-6 racing yacht, my card might still work, but I might have a long wait if I have to get my card re-issued.

Of course, the big advantage of the 'credit stick' is that you essentially carry your account data with you. TL12+ computers supposedly have functionally unlimited storage capacity, so your 'credit card' can hold your updated financial records itself (backed up every time you connect it to the bank, of course). This also allows you to cover the situation where a new customer turns up at a branch on a world before that branch is ever aware that the customer has an account. Theoretically, you can't pull off a fraud on multiple worlds because you need to use the card - which records the change of account balance - to make the transfer/withdrawal.
Even at the time Traveller was originally published, technology allowed a person to transport a pretty complete set of financial records in a compact form. For example, I got a 5.25-inch floppy drive around 1978, a year after Traveller was first published; although those things only held a few hundred kilobytes, that was enough for about a year's worth of routine personal financial transactions.

Computers of that era had the capability to encrypt data well enough that the data would still be secure against today's decryption technology, as long as the encryption software was configured to use encryption that would have been overkill at the time. For example, there was a time when a 56-bit encryption key was considered reasonably secure, but today some web sites are switching from 1024-bit keys to 2048-bit keys. No one in 1978 would have used a 2048-bit key, because it was unnecessary -- but a Traveller world that lacked the technology to defeat a 64-bit key would still have access to the knowledge that they'd need a lot of extra key length to protect data against decryption by more advanced technology. There are limits to that, however; a TL5 cryptographer might know that even the most advanced eight-rotor Enigma machine, with best security practices, might still be vulnerable to the computer in a smart-phone made near the end of TL7 -- but he or she still wouldn't have the technological capability to lock up the data more securely.

One exception is the one-time pad, which is provably secure against all means of cryptanalysis, except for exploitation of mistakes such as re-use of pads. However, the one-time pad only works for secure communication; it doesn't work for data authentication of the sort one would need to implement a stored-value device.

Back to the point, however: a stored value card doesn't need "functionally unlimited" storage; a late-1970s floppy disk is more than enough space. What it needs is secure encryption.

Of course, if you can somehow 'create' a fake card with appropriate encryption, you can beat the system, but (a) the bank is going to pay for really, really, really good encryption for something like this, and (b) is (as F33D says) going to be massively suspicious of someone it's never heard of turning up out of the blue and asking to withdraw MCr10 in cash.
The catch to "really, really, really good encryption" is that it's completely out of the reach of lower-technology worlds. As I noted, present day (late-late TL7 or early TL8, depending on how the lines are drawn) computing can readily defeat TL5 electro-mechanical encryption, and electro-mechanical devices aren't up to the task of encrypting and decrypting data using the public-key technology necessary for stored value devices.

One solution is that banks on low-tech worlds still use advanced-technology authentication devices. Maybe they rely on typewriters, carbon paper, filing cabinets, and teletypes for most of their operations, but when it comes to reading a stored value card they have a TL15 card reader bolted to a column next to the vault. Alternatively, maybe they just deal in cash.

That's not to say the system's perfect, but - as with most things in Traveller, as it is today, compromising the systems security is done via people, not via 'hacking'; getting someone already has access to the system to issue perfectly genuine cards, for example.
I agree. Inside jobs are an ever-present threat, and I can't see any technological fix to that.

Somebody said:
If you work in a restricted area and most traders, even tramp traders, do then you have a bank account on each of the worlds you deal at/with. Your ship safe carries the money needed for some basic stuff and emergencies but if you buy or sell goods on WayOutaThere you use a local account. Money transfer between the systems is by telling 1st Bank of WayOutaThere to send x credits to 1st bank of Whatchammacallit and a few weeks later it is there. How the banks handle the transfer is not your problem. The transfers might be balanced so no physical money is ever send between systems or they might be imbalanced and one bank transfers cred notes (Likely using armed and armored couriers from a MegaCorp). Costs for the transfer are partially based on how much the banks trust each other.
That's pretty much what Far Trader explains, particularly the point that physical transport of large amounts of currency is typically uncommon, because transfers of financial account balances in one direction are usually balanced by transfers in the other direction.
 
There's another factor here, which is that whenever a bank opens an account, closes an account, issues a letter of credit, etc it will send a highly secure encrypted message on the X-boat network, and subsidiary commercial networks, to update it's branches and affiliates. In the vast majority of cases these messages will arrive well before anyone wishing to make a withdrawal or cash in a letter of credit. Compared to even the fastest means of personal transport, the X-Boat network is far faster, along it's routes.

People are tied to specific vessels and go where they go, wait while they refuel and are serviced, or physically have to be taken to another ship to continue their journey. Electronic messages can be beamed from an X-Boat or courier the moment it arrives in system, and be carried forward by literally the next ship to leave the system which could be in a matter of minutes. Messages also have the advantage of multiple possible routes. It is extremely unlikely that a person will outrun the news of their financial transactions, unless they pretty much deliberately short-cut the messaging networks, drastically restricting the routes they can take and worlds they can target for their fraudulent activities.

Incidentally, I came across this PDF paper on merchant banking in the medieval and early modern era. It's actually quite interesting stuff.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~mkohn/Papers/99-05.pdf

Simon Hibbs
 
The catch to "really, really, really good encryption" is that it's completely out of the reach of lower-technology worlds. As I noted, present day (late-late TL7 or early TL8, depending on how the lines are drawn) computing can readily defeat TL5 electro-mechanical encryption, and electro-mechanical devices aren't up to the task of encrypting and decrypting data using the public-key technology necessary for stored value devices.

They're out of reach of local manufacture. That's not quite the same thing, as you noted.
The local branch of a multistellar bank will almost certainly be in startown (where it only has to deal with the relatively uniform and stable Imperial law, not the pronouncements of the local banana republic's latest loony-in-chief), and...well...if it's an interstellar company it's going to be using off-world tech if the local stuff isn't up to scratch.

A TL15 computer running security/3 is what? KCr 25,000? Fairly small change in the scale of a decent size corporation.

Meanwhile, smaller companies and local banks....don't care. If they don't have a branch off-world, then they have no need to trust off-world letters of credit. They'll let a bank that does take the risk of issuing you currency against your credit account, then accept that.
 
locarno24 said:
They're out of reach of local manufacture. That's not quite the same thing, as you noted.
The local branch of a multistellar bank will almost certainly be in startown (where it only has to deal with the relatively uniform and stable Imperial law, not the pronouncements of the local banana republic's latest loony-in-chief), and...well...if it's an interstellar company it's going to be using off-world tech if the local stuff isn't up to scratch.

A TL15 computer running security/3 is what? KCr 25,000? Fairly small change in the scale of a decent size corporation.

Meanwhile, smaller companies and local banks....don't care. If they don't have a branch off-world, then they have no need to trust off-world letters of credit. They'll let a bank that does take the risk of issuing you currency against your credit account, then accept that.

This is true. You can go to areas on Earth that are TL 1-2 and find TL 7/8 ATM machines for use by tourists...
 
simonh said:
Compared to even the fastest means of personal transport, the X-Boat network is far faster, along it's routes.

Not always. It would be possible to jump ahead of where the X-Boat is jumping and arrive before any messages that are being carried along the X-Boat route.
 
AndrewW said:
simonh said:
Compared to even the fastest means of personal transport, the X-Boat network is far faster, along it's routes.

Not always. It would be possible to jump ahead of where the X-Boat is jumping and arrive before any messages that are being carried along the X-Boat route.

Hence my "along it's routes" caveat. There's also non-x-boat courier services and even ordinary merchant ships carrying mail.

My point isn't that it's impossible to out run the news. It's that normal people carrying out normal business will very rarely do so. That means that if you do turn up with a letter of credit and the news of it's creation wouldn't normally be expected for another few weeks, it's going to be pretty obvious that you've spent a lot of effort sprinting ahead of the news. People are going to wonder why.

Now you might have perfectly legitimate reasons, but anyone cashing that letter of credit is going to want to know what they are.

Simon Hibbs
 
simonh said:
AndrewW said:
simonh said:
Compared to even the fastest means of personal transport, the X-Boat network is far faster, along it's routes.

Not always. It would be possible to jump ahead of where the X-Boat is jumping and arrive before any messages that are being carried along the X-Boat route.

Hence my "along it's routes" caveat. There's also non-x-boat courier services and even ordinary merchant ships carrying mail.

But along it's routes could be anywhere along the X-Boate routes, didn't specify getting ahead of an individual X-Boat going to the same system...

Didn't say it was all that workable in the long term, just saying it is possible to get ahead of X-Boat's.
 
I was thinking about this: it would be easily enough to do that each bill is a RFI transponder that registers itself on a network and in turn is tracked in an account, plus account from account and between retailers. It would provide economic data, as well as preventing most counterfeiting; it would be very interesting to be able to map the route of all currency in the Imperium.
 
dragoner said:
It would provide economic data, as well as preventing most counterfeiting; it would be very interesting to be able to map the route of all currency in the Imperium.

Doesn't do anything extraordinary vis-a-vis counterfeiting.
 
F33D said:
dragoner said:
It would provide economic data, as well as preventing most counterfeiting; it would be very interesting to be able to map the route of all currency in the Imperium.

Doesn't do anything extraordinary vis-a-vis counterfeiting.

Yes it does.
 
The IRS and the intelligence agencies would love that. Most people don't want their cash transactions to be traceable, whether it's the black market, the swap meet or the STD clinic.
 
Condottiere said:
The IRS and the intelligence agencies would love that. Most people don't want their cash transactions to be traceable, whether it's the black market, the swap meet or the STD clinic.

Putting a unique RFID on each bill would be the handiest way to do it, data might not be "real time", but comprehensive and traceable. Some people wouldn't want their cash transactions to be traceable, I think many wouldn't care, and governments, esp ones as powerful as the Imperium, wouldn't care what people want. It would be very doable though, and another reason for the x-boats, constantly updating the network.
 
Likely you'll have a market for bitcoins, or it's fifth millenia descendants, as well as the informal banking systems like Hawala.
 
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