Cargo Personnell

[rinku]

But seriously, we know from our only example of an inhabited planet, you are going to see ultra-modern cargo docks alongside docks that are essentially manually run. You can't apply the TL of a planet universally to every place on it.

Yeah, that's fine for cargo transfer in general in relation to the whole planet, but I think it's fair to assume that the Starport servicing Starships operates on a higher tech basis. Certainly in terms of the ship unloading its own cargo, you have a minimum tech of 9, and an assumed average tech of 12 (per High Guard, p.52). Cargo bots are a mere Cr75,000 and only TL11. A manually operated cargo handler would cost more in terms of capital, life support and wages. (Assuming a stevedore is paid Cr1,000 per month and costs you Cr2,000 a month life support, the robot pays for itself in about 2 years. And that's not including the cost of a forklift equivalent to the robot's lifting ability.)

How the stuff is handled after it's left the starport (or even the ship, really) isn't normally the concern of the crew. In the event that there are no facilities, I would expect that the captain has to organise someone to transport the offloaded goods to destination, or that the recipient is expected to do so (depending if we are talking cargo or freight).

 

[phavoc]

Yeah, that's fine for cargo transfer in general in relation to the whole planet, but I think it's fair to assume that the Starport servicing Starships operates on a higher tech basis. Certainly in terms of the ship unloading its own cargo, you have a minimum tech of 9, and an assumed average tech of 12 (per High Guard, p.52). Cargo bots are a mere Cr75,000 and only TL11. A manually operated cargo handler would cost more in terms of capital, life support and wages. (Assuming a stevedore is paid Cr1,000 per month and costs you Cr2,000 a month life support, the robot pays for itself in about 2 years. And that's not including the cost of a forklift equivalent to the robot's lifting ability.)

How the stuff is handled after it's left the starport (or even the ship, really) isn't normally the concern of the crew. In the event that there are no facilities, I would expect that the captain has to organise someone to transport the offloaded goods to destination, or that the recipient is expected to do so (depending if we are talking cargo or freight).

All I'm saying is that there is going to be a range of TL and starport types. If we are going to assume, then we need to assume we'll see a range of services and capabilities. I would expect a TL13+ Class A starport is going to have very modern equipment. Just like I would expect a TL5 Class D starport to maybe not have so much modern stuff.

Plus everybody is assuming all cargo will be in these neat blocky containers you just hook up to a cargo vehicle and move away. You should expect all kinds of cargo, from bulk palletized to containers to vehicles to anything else.

I was just trying to point out that there's a gap here... not unlike other gaps in the rules and additions to the rules. Just a gap.

 

[rinku]

phavoc, what I was trying to point out was that a starship has a minimum TL of 9 by definition, and the rules state an average TL12 for designs built using the main rulebook.

I fully agree that the facilities at the starport may be low tech, but the onboard cargo handling is going to be high tech. You haven't convinced me that there is any need for the ship to carry stevedores on its crew, though I do agree that someone is needed to supervise the cargo transfer, probably the purser and/or a robotics tech.

Once the freight is unloaded, they can haul it away by donkey cart for all the crew care. I take your point re different cargo types, but why would robot cargo bots have an issue with containers vs pallets? You might need to hire the odd specialist for unusual cargos (i.e. a vet for live animals), but not for standard freight.

 

[silburnl]

On a small ship this would be yet another part-time job for someone, but on a large cargo ship it would be a position in its own right, probably one of the officer positions. Purser perhaps?

The Purser is the ship's CFO and has more than enough to be worrying about when the ship is planetside, so if the ship is small enough that the crew are multi-tasking you'd probably look to use someone who's primary billet on the watch roster is a spaceside role - the sensors guy for instance or one of the gunners (if you have them).

Once you have a large enough crew then the Cargo Supervisor* would be rostered in the Purser's division since there's an obvious synergy in their roles, but you'd have to be very short-handed (or not really a cargo vessel) for one crewmember to take on both roles.

Regards
Luke

* Note that technically a Supercargo is someone who works for the owner of the cargo and isn't necessarily a member of the crew.

 

[phavoc]

I guess the question of cargon handling being done by on-board people comes down to "it just depends". My take on it is that you can't always assume that there will be something locally you can use to unload your cargo. Therefore you plan on having a contingency.

Small tramp freighters like a free trader probably won't have someone dedicated. A 2,000 ton freighter might, and even larger freighters will probably have more than a few.

I'm just trying to draw parallels using what I know about today's shipping activities in aircraft and planes. The Air Force has all kinds of automated loading gear, but if you've ever watched them load a C5 or C17, they have tons of equipment, but also many people there that have some role to be played. Usually there is just one person on the plane (the cargomaster) who is responsible for all that stuff, and they don't do much with it in-transit. But Traveller merchants are more akin to ocean-going vessels than aircraft. And tramp freighters today have a few people on-board who primarily are tasked with cargo in the ports, and then have odd-jobs while en-route. I suppose you could have gunners who also double as freight jockeys on the ground in smaller ships. That would make sense. But bigger ships? Most likely you won't be armed, or just automated weaponry. You would rely on escorts for anything else I think.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I have always assumed that normal stevedore activities are provided by the starport and are included in the docking fee.

It makes no sense for a ship to carry around a bunch of people that are only used in port.

Since there is no specific Cargo Handling skill, it must be a fairly unskilled task.

Personnally, I disagree with this concept and feel that Cargo Handling should be a skill, but I didn't write the game.

 

[rust]

Personnally, I disagree with this concept and feel that Cargo Handling should be a skill, but I didn't write the game.

Cargo Handling was one of the skills added to Classic Traveller by the
Merchants & Merchandise supplement:

Cargo Handling: Expertise in determining the loading and unloading of
various cargoes, determining the optimum shipping method, estimating
the value of a cargo, and estimating the probable profit. May act as + 1
DM per skill level in finding a cargo.

GURPS Traveller even has two skills for this, Freight Handling and Hazar-
dous Materials.

If free traders and starport operations would be at or near the center of
one of my settings, I would certainly add a Cargo Handling skill to the set-
ting's skill list.

 

[BP]

...and a game mechanic (skill check) to cargo loading/unloading and potential damage to goods, ship, equipment or life and limb!

 

[rinku]

Cargo Handling was one of the skills added to Classic Traveller by the
Merchants & Merchandise supplement:

Cargo Handling: Expertise in determining the loading and unloading of
various cargoes, determining the optimum shipping method, estimating
the value of a cargo, and estimating the probable profit. May act as + 1
DM per skill level in finding a cargo.

Ahh, the old licensed supplement skill bloat

That skill looks suspiciously like the Broker skill to me (either in CT or MGT). IMHO it is not required in addition.

I would like to point out that there is already a skill in MGT to cover cargo handlers:

Trade (Storeman) or Trade (Stevedore) or what ever you wish to label it.