Career qualification question

Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
I searched to see if this question was asked already, I hope it has not. If you don't take pre-career education, is there a DM applied when rolling for the qualification for it, and you have no previous careers? Under Careers on pp 9, it says "during a career" you make dice rolls using 2D and add the DM from the listed characteristic, but not for a new one w/o any previous careers. I appreciate your answering!
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
Your question is unclear, and the career section starts on page 11 in the 2022 Core book, but each qualification has a characteristic next to the needed score. You use that modifier when rolling to qualify for the career.
If you are talking about getting an education later, there is a negative modifier for the number of terms you've already served.
 

Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
I don't own the 2022 Core Rulebook Update, but the prior 2E Traveller book, so my page reference is from that book. I understand the rule regarding qualifying for a career after having had at least one prior one. I was stating when you start out at age 18, and have no pre-career education if there was a DM applied when rolling to qualify. A roll for 2D against the characteristic is made (except Drifter, pp 19 in my book), but I was just unclear if a DM was applied for the very first career qualification without having had any pre-career education.
 
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Reisender

Cosmic Mongoose
I searched to see if this question was asked already, I hope it has not. If you don't take pre-career education, is there a DM applied when rolling for the qualification for it, and you have no previous careers? Under Careers on pp 9, it says "during a career" you make dice rolls using 2D and add the DM from the listed characteristic, but not for a new one w/o any previous careers. I appreciate your answering!
I'm not quite sure if I understand the question correctly.

The sequence is as follows:

1. Determine Characteristics
2. Choose Background Skills
3. Pre Career Education
4. Career Terms

You may choose tto enter a Pre Career Education in Term 1 OR you start with a career right away, either by qualifying for the desired career, by draft or the drifter career.
You can choose to enter a Pre Career Education later in Term 2 or 3 but receive a negative DM for the Entry roll as listed under the Pre Career Education.
Pre Career Education gives bonus to qualification rolls for careers as list under the appropriate Pre Career Education.
In addition all DM for qualification rolls for the career apply, including negative DM for number of previous careers. Pre Career Education does not count as a career in that regard.
 
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Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
You do understand; your mentioning "all DM for qualification rolls for the career apply ..." was what I was looking for. For me, this was not clear in the rules. The Careers

I wish I knew another way to describe it; maybe an example would help: e.g., an 18 year old going at his first career, decides to try for the Marines and doesn't want to go to University. Rolling 2D, he rolls a 5. I didn't see anything in the rules regarding any DMs for this roll, so he fails to get in. Your response, Reisender, was that the DM does apply when rolling to qualify for the first-time career. Using that example on your answer, the 18 y/o trying for his first-time career rolls the 5 on 2D, but with his END of 13, it gives him a +2, which makes the result a 7. Thank you, Reisender (& Arkathan) for your help.
 

Reisender

Cosmic Mongoose
You do understand; your mentioning "all DM for qualification rolls for the career apply ..." was what I was looking for. For me, this was not clear in the rules. The Careers

I wish I knew another way to describe it; maybe an example would help: e.g., an 18 year old going at his first career, decides to try for the Marines and doesn't want to go to University. Rolling 2D, he rolls a 5. I didn't see anything in the rules regarding any DMs for this roll, so he fails to get in. Your response, Reisender, was that the DM does apply when rolling to qualify for the first-time career. Using that example on your answer, the 18 y/o trying for his first-time career rolls the 5 on 2D, but with his END of 13, it gives him a +2, which makes the result a 7. Thank you, Reisender (& Arkathan) for your help.
Entry/Qualification rolls always use the DM for the given characteristic. That is the first DM you apply, but there may be additional DM.
In addition there are DM listed under the required roll for each Pre Career Education and for each career.
Example Marine:
END 6+
DM-1 for every previous career
DM-2 if you are aged 30 or more

In Term 1 you are 18 years old and there can be no previous career, so you use just your END-DM for the roll.
If he had graduated University with honours in Term 1 he would have gotten an additional DM+2 to his qualification roll in Term 2. With an END-DM+2 this would be an effective DM+4. Note that this DM is not listed under the Marine career but is given as a result of graduating from University.
If he had a different career in Term 1 and would apply for the Marines in Term 2 he would receive an additional DM-1 because of one previous career. With an END-DM+2 this be an effective DM+1.
If he would apply for the Marines age 30 in Term 4 with two previous other careers he would receive both a DM-2 for that and another DM-2 for being too old. With an END-DM+2 this be an effective DM-2.

I hope it is more clear now what I mean with "additional DM".
 
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Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
As I stated before, the DM added to the qualification roll wasn't listed, and I wasn't able to figure it out from RAW. If it is implied from the score the roll is based on, I wouldn't have figured that out because it wasn't explicitly mentioned; I tend to have issues with interpreting a rule if it isn't explicitly spelled out. The last part of your explanation I know, as it is on pp 16 in my book (the first 2E release, not the 2022 update). My example using the DM on the qualif. roll is thanks to your prior post, thank you again.
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
It is listed though. END 6+ means you need a 6 or better and you use your Endurance modifier to improve your chances.
This is true whenever you see a roll preceded by an Attribute.
 

Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
Please understand; even though it says END 6+ MY understanding of it wasn't processing it as such. It was not a concrete explanation enough for me to interpret. I mentioned before that I have an issue understanding something if isn't explained very explicitly. I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just the way my mind works, and it's easy for me to misunderstand things, and has been this way my entire life. You have been very patient and kind to take the time to explain it in a way I can process it, and I appreciate it, thank you.
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
Please understand; even though it says END 6+ MY understanding of it wasn't processing it as such. It was not a concrete explanation enough for me to interpret. I mentioned before that I have an issue understanding something if isn't explained very explicitly. I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just the way my mind works, and it's easy for me to misunderstand things, and has been this way my entire life. You have been very patient and kind to take the time to explain it in a way I can process it, and I appreciate it, thank you.
I was letting you know that when you see that, it is explicitly telling you to use that modifier. No other motivation, and no emotion. No shortage of patience. When you see an attribute or a skill and an attribute with a roll number, always use those modifiers. The rules will explicitly give you any other modifiers when needed.
 

Diamondfist

Banded Mongoose
I have taken time to formulate an explanation of the depth of my lack of understanding of the qualification roll rule prior to asking this. From your explanation, I can only surmise that it is the STAT+ under the qualification roll is where the "explicitly telling you to use that modifier" is coming from. I looked everywhere not knowing this, because I am looking for exact wording, e.g.: "you use the DM from the characteristic listed in the qualification roll", or "the DM tied to the characteristic for the qualification roll is applied to the qualification roll", which I did not find, except the Careers heading, p9 in my book, but it falls under a passage "At many points during a career ...", and my brain doesn't connect this to the start, where you roll to qualify. If this is included as part of the qualificstion roll, I wouldn't have 'connected those dots'. I understand it now, because of your explanation, but for me, prior to that, I needed to see this worded in that very specific particular way, or similar wording for me to understand it. I hope this provides a clearer description of where my head is regarding this. I appreciate your time, kindness and patience in answering my question.
 
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Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
YW and NP.

That said, when you get to adjudicating skill rolls, different stats may apply depending on the context of the roll. Like gun combat. Shooting is gun skill (type) + DEX. Fixing a gun is gun skill (type) + INT or EDU. If the character can give a logical reason for tying the skill and stat to the action, you can rule whether to allow it. But when it calls for a skill and or stat, that is explicitly telling you to use that. And then you can decide whether to add others if you need or want to..
 
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