Capital Ship Design Question

[Devilmountain]

Jumping into High Guard with both feet this weekend I attempted my first Capital Ship design. I had dozens of questions at the time and much head pounding as the math just didn't seem to be clearly explained to me (again readers of my previous posts will note Math is not my strength) and frequently the (few) examples provided seemed to contradict the rules for some reason.
In the end though I think I figured out most of my design questions. However There is at least one answer I couldn't find. When choosing a Hull type the option of Close Structure is available. No where in either Core or High Guard could I find what this Close Structure was supposed to mean. Under Streamlined it says "Partial" What does this mean? Does this mean it is suitable for inter-atmospheric flight but doesn't have fuel scoops? Or vice versa? What does it mean!?!

Your help, as always is appreciated.

 

[rust]

"Close Structure" and "Partially Streamlined" seem to be leftovers from
previous versions of Traveller.

There the best example of a "close structure" was a sphere, and "partial-
ly streamlined" ships were able to refuel at gas giants, but unable to land
on planets with atmospheres.

A good example of a starship of that kind would be the Broadsword Class
mercenary cruiser, the 800 dton mercenary cruiser of the core rules.

 

[Devilmountain]

Rust to the rescue again!
Thanks, man.

I do have a question about your answer however...On page 127 of High Guard the light carrier is listed as Close Structure and the illustration/decplans are anything but sphere-like.

This seems to be another mystery that may not be solved.

How bout another question: When buying/fitting weapons for a starship/capital ship does anyone else out there just get bored as hell? Having never played the game before I really don't know the functionality of each weapon. I really don't know what does what and to which level of effectiveness. I designed a 100,000 ton Capital ship this weekend (close-structure as I thought it would look somewhat like that carrier...might have to change that now) and when I got to the weapons portion of the design I just copied down all the weapons listed from the example given in the book. Even thought I believe that was a lighter vessel.

Any thoughts/tricks/hints on weapon choice and allocation?

 

[rust]

I do have a question about your answer however...On page 127 of High Guard the light carrier is listed as Close Structure and the illustration/decplans are anything but sphere-like.

In my view some of the illustrations in High Guard are "out of sync" with
the design system and the descriptions of the ships. For example, I would
hesitate to call the escort on page 136 a cylinder.

Any thoughts/tricks/hints on weapon choice and allocation?

I better leave that question for others to answer, almost all ships of my
settings are unarmed.

 

[Devilmountain]

I better leave that question for others to answer, almost all ships of my
settings are unarmed.

Oh man, that's what I feel like doing too. I plan on fewer big interstellar shoot-em-up encounters and more inter-personal/exploration type adventures. Thanks again for your help.

 

[AndrewW]

Yup, they did leave a description out...

Classic Traveller answer:

Streamlining refers to the ability of the ship to enter atmosphere (partial streamlining allows fuel skimming but prohibits entry into world atmosphers for the purpose of landing).

How bout another question: When buying/fitting weapons for a starship/capital ship does anyone else out there just get bored as hell? Having never played the game before I really don't know the functionality of each weapon. I really don't know what does what and to which level of effectiveness. I designed a 100,000 ton Capital ship this weekend (close-structure as I thought it would look somewhat like that carrier...might have to change that now) and when I got to the weapons portion of the design I just copied down all the weapons listed from the example given in the book. Even thought I believe that was a lighter vessel.

Having done up ship stats for warships up to 540,000 (at least we skipped the deckplans for that one) tons guess I can answer for myself. I tend to pick weapons that would be appropriate for the ship class. For capital ship turrets are used more for point defense then offensively for example. I tend to favor 100 ton bays over 50 ton myself due to space savings, while the bay itself takes twice the tonnage, the fire control is still 1 ton, and two separate 50 ton bays also need twice the crew. Take a look at the overall ship and see what it's role is, this might help you to pick out weapons that would appropriate.

 

[BP]

Streamlining is answered in Core.

One problem I have with HG - besides the tables being spread out illogicaly, of course - is that you also need the core book open - and to two places (design and combat) - to design an armed ship.

Besides the layout issues - a few things aren't covered well. In addition, in at least one case an example is wrong (look at the Planetoid Monitor - its supposed to be a buffered planetoid, but the tonnage was done wrong).

The other examples, to what I've checked, have been correct (a wonder) - but are confusing in that not everything is spelled out. Still, they are good for checking the rules...

(Oh - and one or two missing/contradicting things are 'resolved' by looking at other books...)

BACK to your specific questions - a Close(d) Structure simlpe means something atmo just won't flow through (like a brick). Its partially streamlined in that it does provide minimal lift (resistance wise). The configurations are more about 'bearing' and price differences. For structural integrity (I presume) a sphere is cheaper to create than a brick type closed structure. (Note- it doesn't just mean 'brick' that is an example!).

Basically it doesn't have one of the other shapes listed - and isn't dispersed - i.e. open to the atmo or with places the atmo would have to flow 'thru' (nor a planetoid).

Partially streamlined is answered in Core - they can have fuel scoops added - and have more difficult (DMs) to fly through atmo.

Note that even non-streamlined can attempt flight in atmo - with majorly worse DMs - in MGT. See Core pg 137 under 'Atmospheric Operations'.

Core pg 110 covers fuel scoops - which can be added to unsteamlined (yup - even dispersed! at least that I can tell) ships for extra MCr. Streamlined get these free...

As to choice of weapons - now that is an art . Look closely at the combat tables, the tonnage and the costs.

For instance, kinetic weapons (missiles, torps, railguns, and to some extent sandcasters) are largely not protected by shields (except black globes) and require ammo. They also can be fired when P.P. is disabled.

Energy weapons can be fired till P.P. is destroyed. They also have shield blocking options.

As stated - higher power weapons are great for offense (i.e. anti-ship), while lower power turrets are more likely to be used defensively (anti-missile/torp - since these are CHEAP for their power!).

The tradeoff is hardpoints. A 9d6 100 ton bay takes the same number of hardpoints as a 2d6 weapon...

Missiles, torps can be shot down and take more turns to disable enemy (no so good if you are dead!).

So it is a matter of anticipation and balancing odds. Its not easy - and it shouldn't be (oh just give me one ultimate weapon and one of those invincible shieldy things...).

Hope this helps!

 

[Octagon]

How bout another question: When buying/fitting weapons for a starship/capital ship does anyone else out there just get bored as hell? Having never played the game before I really don't know the functionality of each weapon. I really don't know what does what and to which level of effectiveness.

Any thoughts/tricks/hints on weapon choice and allocation?

That's one of the reasons for the TCS style tournaments.

 

[Devilmountain]

That's one of the reasons for the TCS style tournaments.

Um, what's a TCS style tournament?


*hangs head in bashful absentmindedness*

 

[AndrewW]

That's one of the reasons for the TCS style tournaments.

Um, what's a TCS style tournament?


*hangs head in bashful absentmindedness*

See this thread:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41907

 

[Devilmountain]

Hey that sounds like a great idea. Better get faster and more accurate at ship building before I throw my hat in the ring though.

 

[Octagon]

Hey that sounds like a great idea. Better get faster and more accurate at ship building before I throw my hat in the ring though.

No need to be shy, 1BCr isn't a very big fleet and it's all only for fun anyway. If your Fleet doesn't do well you can always say, "hey, I'm new here", but if it does do well then you've got extra bragging rights!

 

[Devilmountain]

Sort of on the same subject, is there a way on these forums to upload files for peer evaluation?

So far I've built a 500 ton, a 100,000 ton and a 20 ton space craft. I can export my pages as PDF so they are easily viewable. Is there some way to upload them to this forum or does anyone have another idea?

 

[AndrewW]

Sort of on the same subject, is there a way on these forums to upload files for peer evaluation?

So far I've built a 500 ton, a 100,000 ton and a 20 ton space craft. I can export my pages as PDF so they are easily viewable. Is there some way to upload them to this forum or does anyone have another idea?

Not directly but one can always provide a link. if you don't have anywhere to upload them there's the MGT-Aids Yahoo group.