Canadian armed forces - questions

[Ben2]

I'm currently writing a Canadian list.

I know they use Leopard 2s, and have picked up 2.
I know they use M-113s, and will pick up a couple.
I know they will use Shadows, and will pick up a pack.

However for Canadian infantry I do not know the squad size and composition, and how they are equipped. I am fairly sure it is a Canadian version of the M-16 and an FN Minimi, but how many are in a squad, how are the fire teams split, is there a variation for AT infantry?

Does anyone do Canadian modern minis? Can you repaint USMC with CADPAT?

In short need a couple of pointers, preferably from someone who knows a fair amount about the Canadian military.

 

[britneyfan97]

The brit minis with marine arms/weapons would probably work best. A little too much conversion work for me though.

 

[rjandron]

Data on units is in this topic:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25526&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=canadian

I would use USMC figures. CADPAT-AR is almost indistinguishable from MARPAT Desert. Canadian helmets and kit are very similar to USMC. They look nothing like British Army kit, so please, do not use those.

Also, Canadians do not use the M-113 any longer in line units. The M113s in inventory underwent some modifications and are now called TLAVs.

The primary Canadian APC is the LAV-III, which is based on the Stryker chassis but with a LAV-25 turret. I'm using LAV-25s for my CF units. As an aside, this also doubles quite well for the LAV-RECCE/Coyote reconiassance vehicle.

 

[britneyfan97]

Weren't they using the webbed brit helmet covers before?

If not, I promise to lay off the dope!

 

[rjandron]

Nope. Never have used them. Before they started issuing the new helmets a few years back (MICH-style helmets also used by the US Army/USMC nowadays), they were using an American-style steel helmet of Vietnam vintage. They would have used these up into the early 1990s. After that, they're MICH helmets.

A bit of trivia: Canadian snipers in Afghanistan in 2001 used British Desert DPM fatigues since CADPAT-AR combats were not yet deployed at that time. CF in Afghanistan are now kitted with CADPAT-AR, but in 2001, they were still using the green CADPAT-TW (Temperate Weather) fatigues.

 

[Helstrom]

Weren't they using the webbed brit helmet covers before?

That's WWII you're thinking of

 

[Mr Evil]

i think thye use little hand axes for cutting down trees dont they ?

 

[Ben2]

Right,

So the basics will be

Leopard IIs
LAV-IIIs
USMC infantry
Shadows

Is there a 1/72 kit of the LAV-III anywhere?

ACE do a 1/72 LAV, LAV-R and LAV-C.
Matchbox do a basic die cast.

Which leaves the question, are there any important IFVs I'm missing out? Will the standard Canadian fighter still be the C-18?

 

[Mr Evil]

Is there a 1/72 kit of the LAV-III anywhere?

ACE do a 1/72 LAV, LAV-R and LAV-C.
Matchbox do a basic die cast.

i havnt see a prepainted and built LAV sofar

the matchbox one you mentioned have you a link ?

 

[Jellicoe]

Dragon do prepainted and kits of AAV-7s in 1/72 scale which is another to consider for the USMC until EFV comes along in a few years time.

 

[rjandron]

No, no LAV-III kits exist at present in any scale that I'm aware of. For 15mm, I've used Strykers and LAV-25s to convert to LAV-IIIs. For 28mm, I'm planning on using LAV-25s as stand-ins for LAV-IIIs.

As far as fighters go, Canada is a partner in the developnent of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, so I would expect that these will replace the F-18s in due course.

The question I would have is what doctrines would be used within BF:EVO to distinguish the Canadians from the USMC? For all intents and purposes, there is a great deal of similarity. Both forces are developing "Land Warrior" systems (MERS for USMC, and Solider System for CF), and both use similar weaponry and fire-team tactics.

 

[Sauragnmon]

Actually, as far as tanks go, Canada's retired our supply of Leopards, which were only Leopard 1's, not 2's. At last I heard, they're going to replace them with *vomits* the Stryker Mobile Gun System, in all its tinfoil-plated glory. They retired our actual tanks, in favour of these junkbuckets, because they didn't have any domestic means to deploy them overseas. That's right, that's how lazy and stupid our government is. Instead of buying planes that could move our tanks, they just mothball them and buy weakly armored crap that can't protect our troops any the better, putting more of our troops at risk.

But then, I'm a little partisan, and think at least half the government should be hanged for treason for suggesting stupid ideas like this, and continually short-changing our country's defence. I'm probably a little extremist compared to some people too, but that's just me.

 

[rjandron]

You're behind the times a bit Sauragnmon...

Feds have given the go-ahead to purchase C-17s for strategic lift aircraft and are looking to purchase CH-47 Chinook helicopters. They are currently negotiating with Germany to lease and/or purchase top-of-the-line Leopard 2A6 tanks. Add in new artillery, deployment of uparmoured Leopard C2s to Afghanistan, and you have some much-needed resources flowing into the Canadian Forces.

 

[Ben2]

See, this is better news. Leopard 2A6s and LAV-25s good, tin foil (what is basically an assault gun) bad but would have some tactical uses.

So the squad is literally the same as the USMC squad then? I know the weapons are the same (C16 and FN Minimi), but two fireteams of 4 then?

 

[byram]

these guys may have what you seek:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/?yguid=236003808

 

[byram]

i pulled these images from that website:

 

[byram]

and yes the Canadians use the Leopard C2 (there upgraded Leo 1's)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_5.asp?Offset=3&cat=1

 

[rjandron]

and yes the Canadians use the Leopard C2 (there upgraded Leo 1's)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_5.asp?Offset=3&cat=1

Currently, however:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2546747&C=america

Berlin confirmed reports Saturday that Canada is to buy German Leopard tanks to equip its forces serving with the NATO multinational force in Afghanistan.
The defense ministry said it was examining a request to that effect from Ottawa, confirming a report in the magazine Der Spiegel due to appear Monday which says that 80 A4 tanks could be bought from the German army reserve.
“The ministry is in principle favorable to this request,” a spokesman told AFP.
Spiegel says the Canadians also want 20 Leopards of the latest A6M type which are mine-resistant, of which the German Bundeswehr regular army has 40.
But as the German manufacturer Krauss-Maffei Wegmann cannot deliver them at once, Canada wants to lease them from the German army, according to the magazine.

[/quote]

 

[byram]

very cool 8)

 

[docrailgun]

If I might offer this news: http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-leopard-tank.htm
A couple of paragraphs down, there is this: "Images of M113A3s in Afghanistan have been of poor quality so far. [1] The TLAV’s rooftop remote-control armament has been covered – until revealed, we must assume that PWS (Protected Weapons Stations) have been mounted. M113A3s will act as infantry section carriers. The arrival of tracked LAVs is well-timed – winter rains are turning the Afghan dust into mud."
Also, http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/M113A3 lists several M113 variants that will be in service until 2020, including 3 personnel carrier versions.

So, until there are some Styker or LAV models, I'll probably use M113A3 (if I can find them) for my planned Canadian force.

Also, Canadians do not use the M-113 any longer in line units. The M113s in inventory underwent some modifications and are now called TLAVs.

The primary Canadian APC is the LAV-III, which is based on the Stryker chassis but with a LAV-25 turret. I'm using LAV-25s for my CF units. As an aside, this also doubles quite well for the LAV-RECCE/Coyote reconiassance vehicle.