Campaign questions B5 ACTA

[AdrianH]

Also, you can't send anything through the jump point the turn it's created.

Why not?

It's against the rules.

There was a clarification of the rule in the FAQ that's floating around here. If you dig through the forum, you'll find it. I think it's in the new player resources.

I don't know if the FAQ is still available on-line, but I downloaded a copy while it was available. The relevant part is:

Q. Can you emerge from a hyperspace-realspace Jump Point on the turn it was created?
A. No. No ship can enter a Jump Point on the turn it is created.

The rules as written are a bit confusing, but if I understand them correctly:

Turn X: ship declares "Initiate Jump Point". The jump point is opening, nothing can go through it.
Turn X+1: ship declares "Initiate Jump Point" to keep the jump point open. Ships can now go through. This can be repeated up to turn X+3, after which the jump point collapses. And if the ship which is declaring "Initiate Jump Point" goes through, the jump point collapses at once, so be careful choosing which ship to move next!

 

[Burger]

It gets really confusing when you have multiple jump points, and ships going through each other's JP's!

 

[Anbar]

What? Where?

I've got the 2nd Ed rules and P&P but dont know anything about this "FAQ"....

 

[AdrianH]

What? Where?

I've got the 2nd Ed rules and P&P but dont know anything about this "FAQ"....

Found it!
A Call To Arms FAQ

 

[Anbar]

Cheers... good grief.. that changes the way we've been playing a bit....

we've been opening a jump point with one ship, then rushing in a mob of others in the same turn.

ewww, big change....

 

[Anbar]

Right then, SLy THeory #2:

If I upgrade 4 of my star furys to Firebolts (on a fleet carrier with 8 fighters capacity) can i then add to that ship 4 breaching pods that were bought separately as a wing, with their troops?

THe ship will cost +1 patrol point but thats legal?

 

[Burger]

As long as you have hangar space, yes.
Eg. Poseidon has 24 flights, if you have 4 firebolts and 18 aurora then you can put in 2 breaching pods. You can't go over 24 flights in total.

 

[AdrianH]

Right then, SLy THeory #2:

If I upgrade 4 of my star furys to Firebolts (on a fleet carrier with 8 fighters capacity) can i then add to that ship 4 breaching pods that were bought separately as a wing, with their troops?

THe ship will cost +1 patrol point but thats legal?

For one thing, you can't upgrade 4 Starfuries to Firebolts on a fleet carrier with 8 fighters capacity because that carrier is the Avenger which is not available to the Crusade Era fleet, and the Firebolt is only available to the Crusade Era fleet.

That aside, the carrier plus Firebolts costs +1 Patrol point, the independent breaching pods cost another Patrol point. If you now swap the breaching pods for four fighters, it still costs the same, and now you have a carrier with four breaching pods and an independent wing of four fighters - the total capacity of the carrier can not be exceeded. I'm not sure what happens to the breaching pods' troops though, because strictly speaking the pods are now assigned to the carrier and may have to use its troops.

What you could do is specify right at the start that the carrier has one breaching pod instead of a fighter. Then you buy as many independent breaching pods as you like, and because the carrier is listed as carrying a breaching pod, it's allowed to recover them if they are destroyed.

 

[Anbar]

For one thing, you can't upgrade 4 Starfuries to Firebolts on a fleet carrier with 8 fighters capacity because that carrier is the Avenger which is not available to the Crusade Era fleet, and the Firebolt is only available to the Crusade Era fleet.

yes, sorry, we're using a 'combined EA list' (and playing with Homeworld Hiigaran ships!)

---------------

I thought that swapping out Starfuries for (say) thunderbolts, Pods or Badgers was a "free" swap: that they were just interchangeable at will and that only FIrebolts (as they are advanced) cost anything?

i.e. The Avenger (lets assume it in crusade era for the sake of this) could have:
8 Auroras OR 8 Thunderbolts OR 8 Badgers OR any combination thereof so long as its done a wing at a time.

Or (for no cost) you can have 4 Firebolts. Then pay 1 point for the Breaching Pod wing as it is "In addition" to the original compliment.

Alternatively, you could give it 8 breaching pods (for no cost) although they would have to use the Avengers own Troops.

What you could do is specify right at the start that the carrier has one breaching pod instead of a fighter. Then you buy as many independent breaching pods as you like, and because the carrier is listed as carrying a breaching pod, it's allowed to recover them if they are destroyed.

I think that answers most of the above, although I am wary of reading things between the lines...could you clarify the above and make it as idiot proof as possible? :roll:

Sorry, its just that we are starting the campaign tomorrow and i want to nail down exactly how these things work.

 

[Burger]

8 Auroras OR 8 Thunderbolts OR 8 Badgers OR any combination thereof so long as its done a wing at a time.

Yes, apart from the wing at a time part. You can swap any number you like. So if you want 1 Aurora, 3 Badgers. 3 TBolts and 1 breaching pod then you can.

Or (for no cost) you can have 4 Firebolts.

Er no, not sure where you got this? To swap to Firebolts you need to pay a patrol choice to switch up to 4.

Alternatively, you could give it 8 breaching pods (for no cost) although they would have to use the Avengers own Troops.

Yes, if you did that swap when you purchased the Avenger. If you buy your avenger with auroras and then swap out the Auroras and put in pods from an independent wing during the campaign, then they will have their own troop.

 

[katadder]

the free swaps are done when you buy the carrier for your fleet initially so have to decide what you are putting on it at that point.
you can buy upgrades then but they are not free.
you can replace lost fighters with any available to that carrier at usual costs.

 

[Anbar]

Thanks everyone.

Burger: yes I meant 2 firebolt for 4 auroras, sorry!.

------------
So your initial Campaign Fleet is really Key to the ongoing game isnt it? Its probably worth picking a fairly eclectic fleet, with many different ship types and fighter compliments, just to allow you to keep all your options open for recruitment further down the line?

 

[Burger]

Burger: yes I meant 2 firebolt for 4 auroras, sorry!.

???
You can't swap 2 firebolts for 4 auroras. You can swap 4 auroras for 4 firebolts for a patrol choice.

So your initial Campaign Fleet is really Key to the ongoing game isnt it? Its probably worth picking a fairly eclectic fleet, with many different ship types and fighter compliments, just to allow you to keep all your options open for recruitment further down the line?

Yes, but you can swap out fighters for any others at any point you like. For example you buy an Avenger with 8 Auroras, and a 2 independent wings of firebolts. Then for one game you can swap the firebolts in if you like - you already own the ships so there is no RR cost, but you will of course use up a raid plus a patrol FAP to field it. Then next turn you can buy a wing of breaching pods, and swap them in for the next battle.

 

[Anbar]

Super-dooper, makes sense - cheers.!

Campaign Map (thanks to Burger website again!!!)

Hiigaran fleet:

Campaign Turn 1: (Friday)
Player: : Somtaaw
Player: : Zingiber officinale

Somtaaw win initiative and attack H-17, 5 FAP SKIRMISH level 'Space Superiority'
Zingiber officinale: Attacks Byzantium Trade Station: 7FAP BATTLE level 'Carrier Clash'

 

[Democratus]

Good luck with your next battles. If possible, we'd love to see pictures of your sweet Homeworld minis in action!

I'm betting H17 will be hotly contested throughout the campaign. It has an RR income equal to the entire rest of the system!

 

[Anbar]

SPace Stations in campaigns:

If i build a space station on a strategic target (planet) then what happens if I lose a battel for that planet that does not include the space station?
Do I automatically lose the space station also?

THe reason I ask is that it seems oddd to lose the strategic target when there is still a space station around it, upp to and including one as big as War level.

But, in theory, I could lose the objective AND the space station by loosing a patrol-point scenario for that objective?

 

[Anbar]

the reason for seeking clarity is that the P&P says that the advanced space station rules replace those of the 2nd edition, and nowhere in P&P does it any longer state that you cannot lose a strategic objective unless the space station is involved in the scenario.

Is this an oversight or does it really mean what i said in the above post?

 

[Anbar]

and, finally, can you put a space station on any capaign objective (other than trade route) including space stations and comets etc?

 

[AdrianH]

SPace Stations in campaigns:

If i build a space station on a strategic target (planet) then what happens if I lose a battel for that planet that does not include the space station?
Do I automatically lose the space station also?

Yes. From P&P: "if the Strategic Target is captured by another player, the space station will be captured as well."

THe reason I ask is that it seems oddd to lose the strategic target when there is still a space station around it, upp to and including one as big as War level.

But, in theory, I could lose the objective AND the space station by loosing a patrol-point scenario for that objective?

It does seem that way. It's odd that you can lose an entire planet by losing a Patrol level scenario; losing the station which orbits that planet is just part of the oddness. I suppose if the planet falls then the station can not be supported while there's a hostile planet underneath it.

the reason for seeking clarity is that the P&P says that the advanced space station rules replace those of the 2nd edition, and nowhere in P&P does it any longer state that you cannot lose a strategic objective unless the space station is involved in the scenario.

Is this an oversight or does it really mean what i said in the above post?

Remember that you also no longer pay triple points to build the station, nor do you pay extra RR points to maintain it.

and, finally, can you put a space station on any capaign objective (other than trade route) including space stations and comets etc?

As far as I can see, that has always been the case - the rules say the station has to be placed on a strategic target and make no restriction on which strategic target can be picked.

Incidentally, I always thought the rule that a space station can't be destroyed is odd. Apparently this is because it is too big. Babylon 5 is supposed to be 8km long and it's Battle level (until the weapons upgrade, anyway). An Omega class destroyer is about 1.7km long, probably the size of at least a Patrol level station. And the Drakh mothership is about 60km long!

 

[Anbar]

Space Stations in campaigns:

If i build a space station on a strategic target (planet) then what happens if I lose a battel for that planet that does not include the space station?
Do I automatically lose the space station also?

Yes. From P&P: "if the Strategic Target is captured by another player, the space station will be captured as well."

i'm not so sure tbh, nowhere does it actually say that the rule from 2nd edition is gone.

2G The Strategic Target will only be lost if the attacking player wins in a scenario that involved the space station.

because if that rule has gone then it seems a total waste of time building a space station: and the bigger you make the space station the less likely you will be able to even use it a given scenario (you are far more likely to roll a lower level priority game than a high level one, so the chance of using a war level space station is considerably lower than a patrol level one).

It seems to me be be a rather large waste of time adding in all of the P&P ammendments for space stations if, at the same time, they also rendered them largely pointless.

although, yes, the two rules do seem to be rather contradictory

2G The Strategic Target will only be lost if the attacking player wins in a scenario that involved the space station.

From P&P:

"if the Strategic Target is captured by another player, the space station will be captured as well."

Also why bother to include this in P&P:

Finally, the random Priority Level of scenarios involving Strategic Targets with space stations may now be modifi ed as normal. If the random Priority Level is of equal or higher level than the space station present, the space station must be used in the battle if the Space Superiority, Call to Arms or Annihilation scenarios are rolled.

If you can capture a strategic target without the need to 'beat' the space station, what is the point of forcing a player to use a space station in any scenario? This rule is surely there so that the defending player HAS to play the space station in some circumstances so that he cannot otherwise permaanently hold on to that strategic target (by not playing his space station).

Its pointless having this condition if the strategic target can be lost regardless of the involvement of the space station in a scenario.