Campaign question about gaining and using XP dice
- Thread starter JoeSmokem
- Start date
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
It takes time to debrief ship crews and make use of experience gained in action. Crewmen don't just magically get better at their jobs because their ship has just destroyed an enemy ship; they need time to refine their methods in light of what they've learned, time to analyze information on enemy performance and integrate it into their drills and doctrine.
This question came up in our last campaign. We read through the rules and determined that, at least for us, you earn exp dice at the time of the action and that they can indeed be spent during the battle. We based this decision in part on the second paragraph of page 189 SFoS. It says you can save them for future campaign turns or spend them immediately.
The second paragraph in the Ship Experience section also talks about 'during every battle' with no where an indication that all exp dice are earned at the end of battle or end of turn. There is the winning side/losing side xp gains that happen at the end due to not knowing who's won until then, but that is the only evidence for a delay and we did not think it persuasive at the time.
Ripple
The second paragraph in the Ship Experience section also talks about 'during every battle' with no where an indication that all exp dice are earned at the end of battle or end of turn. There is the winning side/losing side xp gains that happen at the end due to not knowing who's won until then, but that is the only evidence for a delay and we did not think it persuasive at the time.
Ripple
Sulfurdown
Mongoose
SFoS pg 187 has a chart outlining the campaign sequence. Phase 4 is "Fight Battle" and Phase 5 is stated as "Ship Experience". Under the actual section for Experience, though, it gets fuzzy. I can easily see you're interpretation that the XP is immediate as it states that "During every battle, ships will acquire Experience Point (XP) Dice for various actions they successfully perform." The expenditures for XPD do NOT state when they can be used with the exception of "Tactical Judgement" stating that you keep the dice "ready for use in future battles."
Based on how the other uses for XPD are written (assuming you are not allowing Refitting in the middle of battle), the presence of XP sources requiring knowledge of how the engagement ended (win/loss) and the fact that there is a separate experience phase, I'd say that XP is acquired at the end of the scenario.
EDIT: Yes, you could interpret the "Ship Experience" as the point when you spend the XPD for Refits/OD, etc. If that were the case, however, why not include it in the 'Repairs and Reinforcements' as they tend to be enhancements or repairs or reinforcements for your fleet?
Based on how the other uses for XPD are written (assuming you are not allowing Refitting in the middle of battle), the presence of XP sources requiring knowledge of how the engagement ended (win/loss) and the fact that there is a separate experience phase, I'd say that XP is acquired at the end of the scenario.
EDIT: Yes, you could interpret the "Ship Experience" as the point when you spend the XPD for Refits/OD, etc. If that were the case, however, why not include it in the 'Repairs and Reinforcements' as they tend to be enhancements or repairs or reinforcements for your fleet?
Ah, okay...we did interpret that as the point at which you would roll for other duties and refits. To be honest I had not looked at it since the initial discussion over a year ago and had forgotten about the exp phase bit. It makes a certain amount of sense either way, but do wish it was clearer.
As the gm for our last campaign (we do each turn over two weeks, so a gm to handle the paperwork helps) I saw a number of times where xp was tracked incorrectly. One reason I prefer getting xp as the action happens rather than taking notes and squaring up later. We also do the other duties/refits immediately after the battle as well (most times) just to have another player present and keep it tidy. I suppose technically this would go in the exp phase and be done after ALL fights were complete, almost like a second turn order for us, or at least an extension of the current format. Say putting all exp expenditure for the previous turn on the orders sheet.
Ripple
As the gm for our last campaign (we do each turn over two weeks, so a gm to handle the paperwork helps) I saw a number of times where xp was tracked incorrectly. One reason I prefer getting xp as the action happens rather than taking notes and squaring up later. We also do the other duties/refits immediately after the battle as well (most times) just to have another player present and keep it tidy. I suppose technically this would go in the exp phase and be done after ALL fights were complete, almost like a second turn order for us, or at least an extension of the current format. Say putting all exp expenditure for the previous turn on the orders sheet.
Ripple
Ripple
If you read page 188 of SFoS bottom right hand paragraph you will see that you can't calculate xp and use during the same battle because a ship "A" may cripple or skeleton crew ship "B" and then later destroy ship "B" would change how much xp was earned. Thus xp needs to be calculated after a battle.
If you read page 188 of SFoS bottom right hand paragraph you will see that you can't calculate xp and use during the same battle because a ship "A" may cripple or skeleton crew ship "B" and then later destroy ship "B" would change how much xp was earned. Thus xp needs to be calculated after a battle.
Hmm...you may have a point as the wording uses the 'may not earn...for both'.
We looked at this as you would earn the threshold at the time you did it, and if you later destroyed the ship would earn the balance of the ships xp value. But it does say 'may not'. This one is a case of our view being slanted due to seeing one rule or lack there of as controlling and trying to fit the rest to our perception it seems.
Ripple
We looked at this as you would earn the threshold at the time you did it, and if you later destroyed the ship would earn the balance of the ships xp value. But it does say 'may not'. This one is a case of our view being slanted due to seeing one rule or lack there of as controlling and trying to fit the rest to our perception it seems.
Ripple
Well to be fair that was not what we were doing.
We looked for any statement of when you earned xp, and there is no declarative statement. You are infering that the xp HAVE to be earned at a certain time due to at least one calculation that cannot be made at any other time. We saw a way in which the xp values could perserved and earned at another time in accordance with doing the action as one of the earlier paragraphs stated.
I think your point of view has more merit due to the exclusionary nature of the one statement about earning xp (ie the 'may not' part). But the fact remains it is not a well written portion of the book.
I'm not a huge fan of stereo instructions, but you really do need a set by step this is what you do section. Leave all the whys, and such for later comments.
Ripple
We looked for any statement of when you earned xp, and there is no declarative statement. You are infering that the xp HAVE to be earned at a certain time due to at least one calculation that cannot be made at any other time. We saw a way in which the xp values could perserved and earned at another time in accordance with doing the action as one of the earlier paragraphs stated.
I think your point of view has more merit due to the exclusionary nature of the one statement about earning xp (ie the 'may not' part). But the fact remains it is not a well written portion of the book.
I'm not a huge fan of stereo instructions, but you really do need a set by step this is what you do section. Leave all the whys, and such for later comments.
Ripple
Some players in my current gaming group are saying that XP points need to be spent during the previous turn to buy "Tactical Judgement re-rolls" I think this is wrong..... As Tactical Judgement is full of references of spending XP at the time the dice is rolled to gain the re-roll.
