Campaign Guide now on PDF

I have to say there is quite a bit of content that's useful, in its own way, for a GM and some thoughts about how to structure the flow of a campaign that may be old hat for Traveller vets but are good ideas for new GMs.

The fundamental problem for me is described in this quote. And it does pain me to have to say that this was a product I was very much looking forward to but it just doesn't reach the level of coherence or utility it needed to:

What really gets me is that usually I quite like books full of random tables. Ultimate Toolbox is pretty nice, for example. I was expecting things more like the Mongoose Core random tables for creature generation, subsector generation, and mission / patron generation; coherent, well-thought-out subsystems driven by tables. The tables in this one aren't even particularly good for random hooks, and well-thought-out subsystems are completely out of the question. See, I'm of the school of thought that a random table is actually a probabilistic description of the state of the gameworld (yeah, yeah, sue me for false advertising on the gamist-simulationist axis). Mongoose Core's tables satisfy this simulation requirement - they function descriptively for common patterns in xenobiology, or star formation and colonization patterns, or what kind of jobs people want done by drifting spacers. It took me a while to come up with what kind of setting the tables in the Campaign Guide would describe, but I did eventually find one: Futurama.

I also have Ultimate Toolbox and I've even got a copy of the old Ready Ref sheets from Judge's Guild. I was really hoping for something that would build more on the core's systems to create more options and variety in that same spirit rather than the kind of eccentric grab bag of somewhat overly described situations and ones that aren't general enough to fit into the core's improvisational approach.

Would it be too soon to add this to the list of products that need a 2.0 version?

There's the kernel of something great here: the basic flowchart of structure and the modular approach to inserting random tables into that flow to create a variety of outcomes on the fly. It's just not quite there in practice for reasons gone over in this review.
 
AndrewW said:
nats said:
I just don't understand why its still happening. Why don't they just check with us first when they have plans to make a book to see exactly what we want? Why arent Mongoose taking a proactive approach ie stipulating what they want from their writers, instead of just accepting what their writers give them?

They have done this recently. See the Solo Traveller thread and the one on the 2nd version books.

They also listened and came up with a second version of the Vehicle Handbook.

Yes I saw that Solo thread just after I posted.
 
I'm quite busy and I'm a GM - as far as the Campaign Guide (CG) blurbs go, I'm one of the people intended as a customer.

I spent some time (a few days) integrating it with my "Tell me about the stars & planets" notes. Here is a rough list of things that caught my eye for use either preparing for or running Traveller games.

Worlds
* Festivals

Life on worlds (Campaign Guide World Building Chapter)
* Cities 18 pages + separate 2 example cities
* Rural communities 4 pages + 1 separate example village
* Wilderness 5 pages

* NPCs
* Quick NPCs
* Freaks and villains
* Characterisation tables
* Random enhancements

Missions
* Investigation chapter - how to run a Murder Mystery
* Random Events chapter - too many to list here

Misc
* Utility tables p170 - too many to list here.

Note: This is not a complete review or listing of what is present. Its just those things that jumped out as being immediately useful to me when I start running a Secrets of the Ancients campaign in April.

At the moment I've emailed my notes to Freelance Traveller with the possibility of it becoming available in an issue of that e-zine.
 
As a "complainer" on the boards about the quality of some of the products, I try to be honest about my reviews and complaints. And it's a balance, always a balance.

On the one hand, I DO and HAVE supported MGP with my money by purchasing most of their Traveller books. At first this was done more out of an addiction to Traveller since the release of the first books (with the exception of D20, I've bought materials from every publisher and version since then, including T5).

Having seen various publishers over the decades put out materials, there is ample proof that you CAN put out Traveller materials that have high publishing values. MGP has dropped the ball on a number of products, and some of the ball-drops make no sense to me since they re-publishing previous works. On the other hand, I've acknowledged that MGP has also done quite well with me as a customer by offering to replace my bad versions with corrected ones, AND offering me a free copy of another book to boot. Now THAT is customer service. :)

I think we, as a gaming community, need honest and accurate reviews of the products out there. At a minimum we need to keep pressure on the publishers out there who may take us for granted and think any schlock they publish we'll buy. That's not good for us as a gaming community, and ultimately its not in the best interest of the publisher either.

As a gamer I vote with my wallet. That's pretty much the only way I CAN vote actually. So if the products are interesting and good-quality, then I'll open my wallet and pass along my hard-earned money. But if it's not what it should be, or can be, then no, it's smart of me to keep my wallet closed and voice my disapproval by not supporting them. While ultimately that may cause financial distress to the publisher, I don't think the alternative is any better. Any company that wants to remain in business must make their customer base happy if they wish to remain in business.

I very much hope that management reads the feedback from the boards and tries to implement better quality control for their products. I believe they realize that they DO have a problem sometimes... I just wish that they would acknowledge things more. Typo's and minor errors I can live with... but when you have to essentially throw away two source books because of the errors and republish them in what should have been published in the first place, well, they've earned that black eye then.
 
Old timer said:
...why the hell are you complainers, with the same complaint time and time again, still buying their products?

Maybe because as Mongoose is the only in production active support for the game there is some hope that Mongoose might, oh I don't know, see the problems and do something about them? People really want support for the game.

Yes, Mongoose has been good about replacing bad product for those who buy. But that is bad in a few ways itself. Better to invest a very small bit in at least a casual pass at play testing and proof reading a product rather than rushing it out the door to much acclaim only to be found out by the eager purchasers that they've gotten a poor product again, and then slam the publisher, again.

But yes, some have decided you're right. They've stopped complaining, as they aren't being heard. And they've stopped buying. I've seen at least a couple post publicly that they aren't buying Mongoose Traveller product any longer for this reason.

Seriously, how can you defend this poor level of quality control? And the even worse imo business model that says push product out, fix later, and pay a bunch to replace it for those who bought it. I suppose that model might work if Mongoose are cynical enough and counting on loyalty and/or apathy to mean that only a small percentage of the customers who should be getting replacements actually bother.

All in all I can't imagine it is helping sales.

As for the reviews of this product I've read, the explanation seems to be:

1) A writer who's first language is not English (acceptable if someone who's first language is English and is a competent proof reader is employed BEFORE publication)

2) A writer who's concept of Traveller doesn't seem to fit the widely expected meme (which should be caught and addressed by a competent editor who does have a grasp of the expected meme, again BEFORE publication)

The conclusion being that apparently Mongoose doesn't care, since they seem to have not employed either a proof reader or editor. Simply hiring anyone, and blindly publishing what comes in.

To paraphrase you Old timer, why the hell is Mongoose, with the same complaint time and time again, still publishing Traveller?
 
Egil Skallagrimsson said:
... my favourite is describing a rich and powerful noble as a "magnet" rather than a "magnate" ...
The one I liked most was "battledresses" ... 8)

Apart from an English that is even worse than mine, a lot of the ideas
of this book are much closer to space fantasy than to science fiction,
so it is nothing I am likely to buy.

Edit.:
By the way, this would make a nice event for the campaign guide:

"You encounter a group of veterans of the Imperial Marines and ask
them whether their battledresses were knee length or ankle length.
Roll 2D100 times on the Injury Table and add the results."
 
rust said:
The one I liked most was "battledresses" ... 8)

Weren't they from some anime series?

I thought that the campaign guide was the biggest disappointment from the Traveller product line for quite some time. It isn't an awful book per se - it's just that there seems to be a serious disconnect between the kind of SF represented by the campaign guide and the kind of SF represented by the rest of the line. This is something thatshould have been picked up by the editor - the dissonance of tone makes it very difficult to use the book in a typical Traveller campaign (even if you aren't using the OTU). This is a shame, because there are the germs of some good ideas in the Campaign Guide that could have resulted in an outstanding product with the right treatment.
 
I thought that Marc Miller approved every release relating to Traveller, if so it is disappointing that he approved this one.

The T4 range that was produced in the mid 90s was awful and it seems that the Mongoose version of Traveller is going down that route. Maybe they see it as a cash cow to see how much they can milk out of it.

Personally I would rather see a slow down in releases and better quality products coming out.

I pray every day that 2300 is not plagued with the problems that we have seen in recent releases and is not filled with continuity errors, misprints, missing pages etc that has happened in the past.

I have purchased every one of the Mongoose Traveller books (along with all previous versions) so I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is however there will be a straw that will break the camels back and I will just go back to using the old GDW rules and background.
 
Ewan said:
I thought that Marc Miller approved every release relating to Traveller, if so it is disappointing that he approved this one.

If Marc Miller is even seeing these books I would be extremely surprised.
 
nats said:
If Marc Miller is even seeing these books I would be extremely surprised.
I'd be extremely surprised if anybody, at Mongoose or elsewhere, is actually editorially looking at or properly proof reading some of the recent MGT releases :)
 
Ewan said:
I thought that Marc Miller approved every release relating to Traveller, if so it is disappointing that he approved this one.

The T4 range that was produced in the mid 90s was awful and it seems that the Mongoose version of Traveller is going down that route. Maybe they see it as a cash cow to see how much they can milk out of it.

I'll just point out that Marc Miller's name was actually on the cover of the generally maligned T4 (it was actually called "Marc Miller's Traveller 4"), so having his name on a product is not necessarily a sign of quality. ;)
 
far-trader said:
...
But yes, some have decided you're right. They've stopped complaining, as they aren't being heard. And they've stopped buying. I've seen at least a couple post publicly that they aren't buying Mongoose Traveller product any longer for this reason.
I've never complained vocally - I just stopped buying a while back.

Matt had stated, at one point, something to the effect that Mongoose was about gaming first, publishing second. While this is a valid rational for initial mistakes - it is not good business sense to continue standing on that premise for repeated mistakes that cost in terms of reputation and real dollars in remuneration for customer service's sake.

Most of the mistakes haven't been about the publishing trade, per se. Content errors aside, there is a high degree of sloppy writing - grammar and formatting - that should be spotted and addressed in minutes.

Those quality issues aren't about lack of time - I can easily proof one of these books in less than 2 hours. Even assuming a lower ability, this should be doable for any book within one man day. It shouldn't take much effort at all to find an English teacher who would jump at the chance to make a few bucks (quid) to proof a book and return it marked for revision by the next business day.

Writers and layout people will always feel rushed - they should. Otherwise things might rarely ever get done as talent aims to 'perfect' everything! I state that as a 'perfectionist' afflicted individual, my own self. ;)

Play-testing sounds good in theory - but is a time consuming and probably a very low return investment due to delays in release time, issues with personal objectives that may be at odds with the writer, and added employee wages to respond and mange the play-testing feedback. Product line and domain knowledge diligently applied by a qualified staffer would yield better overall results. One or two persons reading the book through and interfacing with the writer should be all it takes.

For the most part, it is simple editing and lack of quality control practices that has cost Mongoose the most in reputation and coin.

I like Matt's passion for the gaming community and especially Traveller - and his sincere commitment to customer satisfaction after the sale. If only more of that was channeled into the quality of Mongoose's Traveller products before the sale, I'd buy more product.
 
Play test? Isn't that what the first release of the book is?

Have you seen the disagreement and debate over every little thing in forums? Same occurs in play test and product release gets quite slow. Also people start slamming the product prior to release instead of after all the pre-orders are in.

Editing - While an English teacher may catch some spelling and grammar issues, they may not catch some things or even correct things that don't need it - like changing Traveller to traveler and maybe battledresses came from poor editing and not the author?
 
CosmicGamer said:
Editing - While an English teacher may catch some spelling and grammar issues, they may not catch some things or even correct things that don't need it - like changing Traveller to traveler and maybe battledresses came from poor editing and not the author?
Any English teacher, worthy of the name, would catch the bulk of the blatant errors that have plagued several, if not all, of the books.

In the last couple decades there has been this ubiquitous advent of a thing called a word processor - even MS Word (which Mongoose obviously uses - not being a 'professional' publisher ;) ) has built in editing and commenting facilities. Any 'edits' by a third party, such as an English teacher, should naturally be subject to final approval before ever being included in a released product - an easily implemented feature supported by even MS Word. :roll:

Further, adding Traveller specific spell checking is a simple right click, left click option in most modern editors (I've added Traveller, psionics and starport to my Firefox dictionary, for example).

As to 'battledresses' resulting from 'poor editing and not the author' - either way it is an editing mistake (even my Firefox spell checker flags that one!). One likely indicative of nothing really akin to a formal editing process ever occurring.

Occasional grammar and spelling errors, even rule mechanic errors, are going to creep in to even the best edited and proofed documents. Complainers and whiners will make an issue of even just perceived errors, but such rarely has any real impact on actual sales. Repetitious and blatant errors for all to see, however, result in buyer experience and bad reviews that are common enough to cause such an impact. Doubt Mongoose operates on such high margins that even a 2% market loss is joyfully ignored.

To be sure, grammar/spelling issues are not the only ones, but they have definitely 'tipped the bucket' in my buying decisions. I can overlook personal preferences regarding formatting, organization and writing style, if the rule mechanics and resources content are somewhat solid. The physical books I purchased suffer peeled covers and failed bindings in less than 2 years. The lack of effort in producing quality PDFs - from not formatting with screen reading friendly fonts to the poor quality raster illustrations, notably deckplans - has turned me off from making those purchases as well. Top all that off with jarringly bad grammar and spelling errors. Result - Mongoose has lost, from myself alone, a minimum of $400 in sales.

Opinions are all well and good, but the cold hard fact is that not only has Mongoose lost $400 in gross receipts from me, you can easily tack on an extra $300 in sales to my players - who I introduced to Mongoose, but will not recommend several books I would have otherwise recommended purchasing. And so they not only won't buy them, they won't have them to more directly spread Mongoose around to others.

So, right there is 700 solid reasons to do some simple proofing. ;)

Even die-hard fans who will purchase anything, regardless of the quality issues raised by others, would do well to realize that loss of revenue, even when due to things they don't personally consider important, can hurt the company who produces the product line they are fans of. Acknowledging and adding perspective to such issues can be supportive of their cause, but contesting constructive criticism of repetitious and blatant mistakes is counter-productive.

Without leaving one's chair, it should be possible to find email addresses for teachers who might be willing to make an extra $50~$100 dollars to proof a 100 page document and to find a free simple NDA agreement to cover confidentiality. Looking at online bulk printers, next day air proofs are commonly available for $50, or less, and electronic for free. Less than $100 buys a book on using MS Word and one on preparing PDF content. With a little effort all of these can probably be obtained for less (even free) - offer the Teacher credit in a published book and a retainer (Mongoose makes more than just Traveller books); printing is a competitive market and Mongoose is guaranteed future jobs for the printer; and online material for using Word and producing nice fonts is only a Google away.

Mongoose, notably in the form of Matt, routinely demonstrates exceptional customer service and enthusiasm for the game. It is a shame that some very simple and cost effective steps aren't taken to ensure the quality of their products is more on a par with such. Between direct loss of sales revenue and book replacements, etc., Mongoose could be doing better and probably without even the man-power effort they are expending now (not to mention stress and loss of face).

EDIT: I'm no professional writer, but I am mildly particular about the grammar and spelling in purchased products. A simple re-read and edit revealed 'being continuing' where I should have written 'being continued' in a sentence I had reworded even while composing. :oops: I'm sure there are other mistakes, but that one was glaring enough to warrant changing. (I don't care much as I am not asking any money for my rambling, but still... ;) )

Point is, it took me longer to write the these explanatory sentences than it would have taken me to preview and edit this originally. A third party would likely have spotted the errors easily enough, not to mention, been able to make my word vomit more readable. ;)
 
Mongoose Publishing has made use of PDF's with proofreader comments. They arleady have an NDA agreement that they could make use of.
 
I read the key parts of Animal Encounters last night. And created a forest-dwelling vampire killer bird. I spotted some errors and e-mailed them to Mongoose last night. In a nutshell - its not perfect but it is a fun expansion to games I hope to run using MgT.
 
IanBruntlett said:
I read the key parts of Animal Encounters last night. And created a forest-dwelling vampire killer bird. I spotted some errors and e-mailed them to Mongoose last night. In a nutshell - its not perfect but it is a fun expansion to games I hope to run using MgT.
That is great. It tells me I can expect to be able to create a forest-dwelling bird to kill vampires in my games. ;)

It also tells me Mongoose produced a book with errors in key parts that I would have to overlook, or go out of my way to edit for them. Suspect you weren't reading the book just to proof it - yet you spotted several potential errors. In the context of this thread, I presume those 'errors' are just 'cosmetic', not more substantial, like rules or mismatched table entries. Given what I have seen, I'm also inclined to believe you found things I would also consider errors. Things that would negatively impact my enjoyment of the books from an enjoyment reading standpoint.

It is expected that someone at Mongoose will spend time at least reading your email. Maybe even to the extent of spending time looking up the text, making a decision as to whether your points are valid, and making a note, or even direct change, for future reference. All in all, an expense of time, plus organizational and mental effort, to address issues that could have been easily, and cheaply, avoided.

Of course, every time you read your copy of Animal Encounters those mistakes, in key parts, will still be there. I'll be waiting for the revisions - though they are less likely if Mongoose can't justify the expense given revenue lost by others like myself. :(
 
BP said:
Of course, every time you read your copy of Animal Encounters those mistakes, in key parts, will still be there. I'll be waiting for the revisions - though they are less likely if Mongoose can't justify the expense given revenue lost by others like myself. :(

I am amazed Mongoose are not in administration by now. I know many firms a lot better than Mongoose who have gone down in this recession. Recessions are great for killing off the dead wood.
 
I can't remember seeing any glaring mistakes from Chaosium, and they've always been a small press close to the wire publisher, haven't they?

On the other side: when I submit anything, it's correct. I've written 6 history books (non-fiction) and although I've been assigned editors, any changes were stylistic, or some sentence juggling for clarification. I used a dictionary to check all my spellings, and a toothcomb to go through details. It helped that I always do my own indices, so you HAVE to go over everything again. No-one ever corrected my spelling errors!

I think a bunch of this should lay at the author's door you know.
 
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