Brotherhood of the Crystal Star Lacks Variety

[Anonymous]

While I applaud the game designer's efforts to draw inspiration from the game-books when designing the character classes, I think that they may have been a little to vigorous in their application of this principle when they developed the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star:
With only 9 spells available, at 9th level, every character will know the exactly the same spells. The only difference being which ones are 'discounted' in Endurance Cost.
My solution is either to add more spells (boooring) or, alternatively, each spell should have level-based ranks (a-la Kai Powers). Personally, I think a combination of the two is probably the best.

Opinions?

 

[Eternalknight]

While I applaud the game designer's efforts to draw inspiration from the game-books when designing the character classes, I think that they may have been a little to vigorous in their application of this principle when they developed the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star:
With only 9 spells available, at 9th level, every character will know the exactly the same spells. The only difference being which ones are 'discounted' in Endurance Cost.
My solution is either to add more spells (boooring) or, alternatively, each spell should have level-based ranks (a-la Kai Powers). Personally, I think a combination of the two is probably the best.

Opinions?

You could certainly house rule it that way.

 

[Madbiologist]

Not to sound like a Secret Police, but Counterspell is a spell that is learnt with the other spells, thus it is at level 10 the BotCS have all the spell. Did not it seem weird that at level 10 they still get "a spell".

Now after being a anally retentive picky man, I will say I agree with you that it makes the class very small on Variety, the main differences are in the fact they are different while evolving (two sperate Wizards would evolve differently), just in the end they looks the same. I think the intent is to show that a master Wizard is a well a master ie knows it all. However I think it does make it look like there is no more progress afterward, once you hit lv 20, well that is all there is, no hint to some unreachable epic level stuff afterwards.

 

[stormgod]

Maybe we will get more spells in the new book of magic. Any hints August?

 

[Anonymous]

To be brutally honest, nearly all classes are the same. Two level 20 magi of dessi will be the same; two level 20 kai's will be nearly the same, shadaki buccaneers, etc etc etc.

Also, while the brotherhood magi may evolve differently, at 20th level the player gets to choose only one grand word of power, out of 9. There's some variety right there. (I personally like the levitation grand word of power...teleportation is sweet).

Lastly, after the book of magic is released, there will be such a variety of classes to choose from, that a party of adventurers can be unique. Hopefully, there will be a book of arms released after that, which will show contain a plethora of pure warrior oriented classes (rangers, woodsmen, barbarians, knights of the talon, etc etc).

Oh and the upcoming darlands book will contain the dark cultist class, and the nazdrianim (spelling?), with complete rules for right handed magik spells. Sop you can have evil spellcasters with differing spells; I personally cannot wait to sic my party against their polar opposites...death knights, dark warriors, evil magii, and later on by december (when MoM is released) evil druids.

Yay!

 

[adgramaine]

I seem to recall a post rebuking your arguement here Xex, at least from the Kai front...problem is I can't seem to locate it....

I'm still looking though. If someone could help me find it... (Paido?)


The post basically showed that a 20th level Kai would NOT have access to all Kai abilities. He can master all the Kai Disciplines, but the Magnakai Disciplines max at six at tier V, the 7th one at tier IV, the 8th at tier III, the 9th at tier II, and the final at tier I. This would be a pretty big difference for a level 20 Kai, I would think.

Am I crazy or am I right?

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed, which is why I said almost.

Basically, all kai will know all tiers of basic kai disciplines by level 15. By level 20 they will know at least one tier in all magnakai; however any magnaki discipline taken AFTER level 15 will not be known till its highest tier.

By my post I did not mean its a bad/good thing; I am happy with it. Best way to get around it is to ensure that you player party is diverse; though it dont have to be.

 

[Paido]

Never fear, Paido's here ... :wink:

Have indeed managed to scare up that post you spoke of (You know, sometimes I amaze even myself ... ); here ya go!

Am I crazy or am I right?

Well, seeing as you are a roleplayer ... both? :wink:

BTW, there's another reason why Xex's argument does not quite work for the original question/problem: HorusII remarked that Brothers of the Crystal Star start to have the same abilities (spell-wise) as of level ten, not level twenty. Which does make quite a difference ...


Paido, muddled in quotes today


edit: Was that a Xex darting past me? Damn, was too slow again ... :wink:

 

[TroyXavier]

Yeah, one of the first things I noticed with the Kai Lord is that one, you're going to be pretty much the same as other KLs at certain levels(with a small bit of variety) I'm not surprised the others are too. You still get a lot of variety even if you do end up similar to the other classes.

 

[Greg Smith]

The lack of variety is similar to the game books. By the end of book five you have all of the Kai disciplines.

It also harkens back to the days of AD&D when one fighter was pretty much like another. The addition of feats and skills to D&D 3 drastically reduced that effect.

 

[Arandur]

I think the one thing over-looked here is that even though characters may have similar abilities they can still be quite unique. Just because they have the same spells doesn't necessarily mean the characters will be portrayed identically, or even use those abilities or spells in the same manner. Remember it isn't the numbers, its the character *dives for cover from the number-crunching munchkins*

I wonder though if the designers had opted not to give the BotCS all the spells would folks then have posted about them not mastering their wizardy arts?? :wink:

Besides with the glimpses of the Darklands books I think it is safe to say the there will be advanced classes that also come into play...

Arandur

 

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the plethora of sweet, sweet, classes in magik of magmundii (and hopefully other, future supps). This will encourage players topick diverese, disimilar chars; I really likeplaying ina party/narrating a party ofreally dioverese players and their chars.