Border Kingdom... What? No stats on the vampire worm???

[Dpetroc]

I don't see the inconsistency... damage to flesh is handled differently than material damage. Hence DR for armor... etc.

 

[MadDog]

damage to flesh is handled differently than material damage

That is the inconsistency. Why wouldnt your hand have a chance to break when a much more durable weapon does ? Yes, D20 diesnt have a good way to handle "broken" body parts, but why make it worse ?

How about this one ? What happens if the worm touches itself ? Does it take 8D6 damage ?

Mad Dog

 

[Mark Dunder]

It is damage - which is always vague in d20

Its a consistency issue, Vincent. For some illogical reason, hitting it with a weapon can cause the weapon to shatter, unless of course the weapon is your fist (absolutely inconsistent).

I think damage is totally backwards in some RPGs. A living being is extremely complicated, thus a blow that damages a vital organ can instantly kill. An object, on the other hand, usually has to be battered about a bit before it ceases to function.

I believe a damage type such as Light, Major, Severe, and Critical, that addresses the condition of a wound, can more directly portray damage done to a living being.

Massive Damage attempts to give more realism to the game, but the amount of 20 points of damage is still arbitrary.

Any weapon used in warfare can kill in a single blow, they are designed to do just that. Giving a weapon a certain amount of damage points, such as 1d4 for a knife, means that in normal combat, even with a critical hit, you will never kill your opponent in one single blow. If instead, you use Light, Major, Severe, or Critical damage done, then any weapon can kill with a single blow.

But that would be a totally different game.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

It is damage - which is always vague in d20

Its a consistency issue, Vincent. For some illogical reason, hitting it with a weapon can cause the weapon to shatter, unless of course the weapon is your fist (absolutely inconsistent).

I think damage is totally backwards in some RPGs. A living being is extremely complicated, thus a blow that damages a vital organ can instantly kill. An object, on the other hand, usually has to be battered about a bit before it ceases to function.

I believe a damage type such as Light, Major, Severe, and Critical, that addresses the condition of a wound, can more directly portray damage done to a living being.

Massive Damage attempts to give more realism to the game, but the amount of 20 points of damage is still arbitrary.

Any weapon used in warfare can kill in a single blow, they are designed to do just that. Giving a weapon a certain amount of damage points, such as 1d4 for a knife, means that in normal combat, even with a critical hit, you will never kill your opponent in one single blow. If instead, you use Light, Major, Severe, or Critical damage done, then any weapon can kill with a single blow.

But that would be a totally different game.

Specific descriptions of damage dealt and a sub-system of rules detailing this seem to be (perhaps, intentionally) absent in the d20 ruleset. E.g. a single strike to head or penetrating the sternum would probably spell swift fatality, but to any other location, only injury or at most, slower death.
I would just tell PCs to pick up feats like Improved and Greater Critical (Greater, 109 [AE]; 164 [CRp]; Improved, 110 [AE], 166 [CRp]) to make sure that a deadly blow was effective (in narrative terms to the head or central thoracic region).

 

[Raven Blackwell]

There's a limit to how much realism a game can have. The points to have fun, not create a completely realistic simulation. That's why it is called fantasy and why people need what is called suspension of disbelief to enjoy it.

However if you need a realistic reason an arm wouldn't shatter though note that most sentient beings possess reflexes that act to remove themselves from painful stimuli where as inanimate weapons don't. Once a body senses that the edge of their hand/foot is freezing over it'll immediately jerk it back if it can. A weapon however won't- it'll just stick there and shatter. If the damage from touching a Remora kills a person then they weren't fast enough and their entire body freezes and shatters in the most cinematic way possible. Fair enough?

Also since the damage caused by touching a Remora is due to the temperature difference between a warm blooded mammal and the near absolute zero of a Remora's body necessary to keep its internal liquid oxygen 'blood' a Remora would hardly get hurt touching itself. It's obviously already adapted to handle that level of cold.

 

[MadDog]

There's a limit to how much realism a game can have. The points to have fun, not create a completely realistic simulation. That's why it is called fantasy and why people need what is called suspension of disbelief to enjoy it.

I prefer a greater degree of consistecny in creatures. Maybe I am completely AR about it. I accept that.

Such a creature wuld have no need to eat anything terrestrial (imagine youself swallowing red-hot rivets) and it would quickly freeze itself into a block of ice. Then how do we explain why a weapon (which, according to your process) would stick, isnt required it to take 8D6 damage (shattering it virtually automatically) ?

It has the same problems as the 3.5 remorhaz.

Thats a criticsm of LSDC rather than Vincent.

Mad Dog

 

[Raven Blackwell]

If you read my entry on my version of Atali in either Conan and Cthulhu or The Dark Horse Conan Sourcebook you'll note that I suggest that the Remora is a supernatural creature like Atali and her Frost Giant brothers- or Atali herself in another form gunning for Conan a second time. If so it gets that quirky and somewhat fluid partial immunity to physical laws extradimensional beings have. If this is the case just switch the creature's type to Outsider, give it immunity to age, terrestial disease and posions and no need to eat, breathe or drink and all game mechanics are satisfied.

If you are being really sadistic you can even give it immunity to Critical hits and Sneak Attacks for having no discernable terrestial anatomy.

And feel free simply to give a weapon damage instead of destroying it outright. I think Vincent's way is just a way of simplifying the bookkeeping required but if this sort of number crunching doesn't phase you go ahead and do it. To each their own.

 

[Mark Dunder]

There's a limit to how much realism a game can have. The points to have fun, not create a completely realistic simulation. That's why it is called fantasy and why people need what is called suspension of disbelief to enjoy it.

I don't believe there is a limit on how realistic a game can be and still enjoy it. I do believe that it is impossible to create a totally realistic game, and still fit a character on a sheet of paper.

I think the real truth is that most people hate to have their character die, after all that work went into creating it. I believe playing out the story line should be a lot more fun than hacking and slashing monsters and other opponents just to get up a few more levels. So if a game can kill you in one single blow of a weapon, you might want to think about what you're doing, before you jump into a fray. Remember Conan having to fight that Gray Ape down in the dungeon in Nemedia? He knew he had but one blow to kill that monster, or he would be ripped to shreds. That's what I mean by realism.

 

[Supplement Four]

Bumped for Vincent's Remora.