Battlewagons!

[AnotherDilbert]

For comic relief:

The "Wasa" Class Battleship: 1 MdT, Crew: 17 250, GCr 865.
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, partially streamlined and fuel purification for gas giant refuelling. (Thanks, Chas)
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Max Spinal Meson (24DD), 50 "Crit fisher" Large Fusion Bays, 3730 triple particle turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, one hundred 1000 dT modules.

TL 15            HullP 800 000                    864 551       
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      1000000          200000  10000  
Config  Close Structure      4     4                88000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15       120000  105600      
Rad Shielding                1     1                25000      
                  
JumpD  VAdv,2*FuelEff        4     4    1  100005  187509  400000         2857
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1   90000  225000  450000         2571
PowerP                                  1   55014  110027 1100270         1572
                  
Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1    1600     800      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1  360000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    5501        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1   18000     900      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80    7500      
    Holographic              1          1            1875      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  9546 9546   38184    4773      
Common Areas               20%   20%    1    7637     764      
Briefing Room               10         10      40       5      
Library                     10         10      40      40      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        350    1400     700      
Workshop                    10         10      60       9      
Armoury                      1        700    1400     350      
Brig                        10         10      40       3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                 335        
UNREP                  
                  
1000 dT Module             100        100  100000          330000   5500  
                  
Spinal  Meson               12    12    1   72000   31200   12000    720  720
Large Bay  LongRange,HYield                
Fusion     HighTechnology   50  TL15   50   25000    3750   11000     50  100
Turret   Accurate, HYield               
Particle HighTechnology   3730  TL14 3730    3730   70870   93250   3730 3730               
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                                    #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
                  
Module PD   PD Battery, Type III   55     990   1210    1650     55  
SUM                                       990   1210    1650     55  

                  
Module Meson Screen               110     770   3300    3300          110
       Staterooms                  55     220     28      
SUM                                       990   3328    3300          110
 
 
Module Nuclear Damper             110     770   1650    2200          110
       Staterooms                  55     220     28      
SUM                                       990   1678    2200          110

                  
Fighter Bay  Fighter Hangar 35 dT  12     840    168                   60
             Staterooms            40     160     20      
SUM                                      1000    188                   60
 
 
Boat Bay  Boat Hangar                     500    100      
          Staterooms                      400     50      
          Cargo                           100        
SUM                                      1000    150   
 
 
Drone Bay  Docking space          500    1000    200      
           1.8 dT Drones          500           2500      
SUM                                      1000   2700 
                  
Missile    Large Bay                2     700    375     100     10     2
           Medium Bay               2     140     75      20      2     2
           Small Bay                1      35     18       5      1     1
           Turret                  42      29    185      42     42    42
           Staterooms              24      96     12      
           Missiles              5112           2300      
SUM                                      1000   2965     167     55    47 
                  
Flag Bridge  Command Bridge         1      80    100      
             Briefing Room         30     120     15      
             Staterooms           100     400     50      
             Common Areas         50%     200     20      
             Boat Bay                     200        
SUM                                      1000    185      
                  
Barracks Bay  Barracks            350     700     35      
              Staterooms           12      48      6      
              Armoury              75      75     19      
              Briefing Room         5      20      3      
              Medical Bay           4      16      8      4    
              Traning Facility     40      80     16     40    
              Brig                  6      24      2      
              Cargo                        37        
SUM                               374    1000     88     44 
                  
Extended Ops Collaps Fuel Tank   1000      10      1      
             Cargo                        990        
SUM                                      1000      1 
                  


                  
Crew             17250  
  Command         1569  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      547  
  Engineer        8995  
      Engineer          6995
      Maintenance       2000
  Service         1130  
      Admin             1000
      Medic              129,5916667
      Steward              0
  Gunner          5005  
  Flight    
  Troops             0

Modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, Type III, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 110 Meson Screens, MCr 3328
Nuclear Damper: 110 Dampers, MCr 1678
Fighter Bay: 12 Fighters (35 dT), MCr 188 w/o fighters
Drone Bay: 500 drones (1.8 dT), MCr 2700 w drones
Missile Bay: 426 missiles/attack, MCr 665 + MCr 2300 for the missiles
Boat Bay: 500 dT hangars, 100 staterooms, 100 dT cargo, MCr 150
Flag Bridge: Flag bridge, spacious quarters for 100 officers, 200 dT boat bay, MCr 185
Barracks: Barracks for a light battalion (370 men), MCr 88

 

[AnotherDilbert]

More comic relief:

The "Waxholm" Class Orbital Fortress: 1 MdT, Crew: 8 000, GCr 640 + GCr 1 944 for a full load of missiles.
0G, Armour 15.
Armament: 2000 Large Missile Bays.
Defences: Armour 15. (PD is someone else's problem.)

TL 15               HullP 800 000               2 583 515      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      1000000          200000  10000  
Config  Close Structure      4     4                80000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15       120000   96000      
Rad Shielding                1     1                25000      

ManœuvreD                    0          1    5000   10000                 143
PowerP                                  1   15001   30002  300020         429
                  
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    1500        
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80    7500      
    Holographic              1          1            1875      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1   10000   10000      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  4364 4364   17456    2182      
Common Areas               20%   20%    1    3491     349      
Briefing Room               10         10      40       5      
Library                     10         10      40      40      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        160     640     320      
Workshop                    10         10      60       9      
Armoury                      1        320     640     160      
Brig                        10         10      40       3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                3878        

Large Bay                  
Missile  High Technology  2000  TL10 2000  700000  375000  100000  10000  2000
                  
Missiles                    18    4320000  120000 1944000      
                  
                  
Boat Bay                                     2000     400                   40
                  
                  
                  
Crew                8000              
  Command            728              
  Bridge               3              
      Pilot                  3            
      Astrogator             0            
  Sensor & EW        396              
  Engineer          2572              
      Engineer             571            
      Maintenance         2000            
  Service           1061              
      Admin               1000            
      Medic                 60,09166667            
      Steward                0            
  Gunner            2200              
  Flight              40
  Troops            1000

Launches 240000 missiles / attack.
18 rounds ammunition storage.

 

[Nerhesi]

More comic relief:

The "Waxholm" Class Orbital Fortress: 1 MdT, Crew: 8 000, GCr 640 + GCr 1 944 for a full load of missiles.
0G, Armour 15.
Armament: 2000 Large Missile Bays.
Defences: Armour 15. (PD is someone else's problem.)

TL 15               HullP 800 000               2 583 515      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      1000000          200000  10000  
Config  Close Structure      4     4                80000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15       120000   96000      
Rad Shielding                1     1                25000      

ManœuvreD                    0          1    5000   10000                 143
PowerP                                  1   15001   30002  300020         429
                  
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    1500        
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80    7500      
    Holographic              1          1            1875      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1   10000   10000      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  4364 4364   17456    2182      
Common Areas               20%   20%    1    3491     349      
Briefing Room               10         10      40       5      
Library                     10         10      40      40      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        160     640     320      
Workshop                    10         10      60       9      
Armoury                      1        320     640     160      
Brig                        10         10      40       3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                3878        

Large Bay                  
Missile  High Technology  2000  TL10 2000  700000  375000  100000  10000  2000
                  
Missiles                    18    4320000  120000 1944000      
                  
                  
Boat Bay                                     2000     400                   40
                  
                  
                  
Crew                8000              
  Command            728              
  Bridge               3              
      Pilot                  3            
      Astrogator             0            
  Sensor & EW        396              
  Engineer          2572              
      Engineer             571            
      Maintenance         2000            
  Service           1061              
      Admin               1000            
      Medic                 60,09166667            
      Steward                0            
  Gunner            2200              
  Flight              40
  Troops            1000

Launches 240000 missiles / attack.
18 rounds ammunition storage.

I wait for the 13 waves to be launched than I jump out?

That is a lovely amount of missiles though.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I wait for the 13 waves to be launched than I jump out?

That is a lovely amount of missiles though.

That amount of missiles can almost vaporise a BatRon per salvo, even with advanced missiles. So, it will launch a couple of salvoes and wait for you to jump. You won't have time to get into Long range without reaction drives.

 

[Nerhesi]

I wait for the 13 waves to be launched than I jump out?

That is a lovely amount of missiles though.

That amount of missiles can almost vaporise a BatRon per salvo, even with advanced missiles. So, it will launch a couple of salvoes and wait for you to jump. You won't have time to get into Long range without reaction drives.

I'm not getting into long range or very long even - I'm at Distant. So being unable to jump isn't an issue here.

Especially if the attacking squadron has missiles as well. As a station, missiles will hit you from Distant range with ease... I can even jump in with waves a few hours apart. Jump in, see if a base still exists, jump out if it does. Or fly through the wreckage if it doesn't. Granted.. this just further high-lights missile awesomeness.

I dont think you can jump into Long range, launch 25G fighters though and immediately dog-fight. I think that is within the 100D range ... so that option is out.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

If you have missiles you simply move into Distant, launch a few salvoes and micro-jump before the fortress' missiles reach you. If you overwhelm the fortress' escort PD you can kill it at will...

 

[phavoc]

If you have missiles you simply move into Distant, launch a few salvoes and micro-jump before the fortress' missiles reach you. If you overwhelm the fortress' escort PD you can kill it at will...

And a week later, when you emerge from jumpspace the fortress will have repaired and re-supplied...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Before the attacker jumps he can launch 6 rounds of missiles. If he can get 25000 missiles per round past PD the fortress is dead. Otherwise it will be repaired and good to go in a week, assuming we have a naval base or major starport in the system which seems likely. It needs to be protected with massive PD.

So, the fortress is not entirely useless. It should probably have a smaller magazine and more storage for spare parts and a bigger boat bay to handle the traffic during the repair phase. The engineering crew cannot repair the ship in a week alone.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The "Muskö" Class Orbital Fortress: 2 MdT, Crew: 17 000, GCr 1200 + GCr 672 for a full load of missiles.
0G, Armour 15.
Armament: 2000 Large Missile Bays. Launches 240 000 missiles / attack, priced with 8 rounds of advanced missiles.
Defences: Armour 15. 10000 PD Batteries.

TL 15              HullP 1 600 000              1 882 998      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      2000000          400000  20000  
Config  Close Structure      3     4               160000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15       240000  192000      
Rad Shielding                1     1                50000      
    EM Shielding                  
    Stealth  None                
    Aerofins                  
Breakaway Hull                  
Repair Drones                1     1        20000    4000
                  
ManœuvreD                    0          1   10000   20000                  286
PowerP                                  1   40251   80502  805020         1150
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    4025        
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80   15000      
    Holographic              1          1            3750      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1   20000   20000      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100% 59196 59196 236784   29598  
Common Areas               50%   50%    1  118392   11839  
Briefing Room             1000       1000    4000     500  
Library                   1000       1000    4000    4000  
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        338    1352     676  
Workshop                  1000       1000    6000     900  
Armoury                      1        675    1350     338  
Brig                       100        100     400      25  
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10
Cargo                                      308232    
UNREP                     5000       5000    5000    2500    5000
                  
Large Bay                  
Missile  High Technology  2000  TL10 2000  700000  375000  100000  10000  2000
                  
Missiles                     8    1920000          672000      
                  
Point Defence Type III   10000      10000  180000  220000  300000  10000  
                                    
Boat Bay                                   100000   20000                 1000




Crew               16858  
  Command           1533  
  Bridge               3  
      Pilot                  3
      Astrogator             0
  Sensor & EW        396  
  Engineer          5436  
      Engineer            1436
      Maintenance         4000
  Service           5290  
      Admin               2000
      Medic                539,875
      Steward             2750
  Gunner            2200  
  Flight            1000  
  Troops            1000  


Passengers    
  High             25000
  Mid              25000
  Low                  0

100 000 dT Hangar, 50 000 staterooms for transients, 300 000 dT cargo. This is something like a military high port.
It should handle a BatRon or two, but unfortunately also costs like a BatRon or two...
You would need to attack it with a fleet launching 150 000 missiles / round to kill it. That would be something like 1.6 MdT or GCr 2000 of missile boats. If the attacker didn't jump out the fortress would kill something like 5 MdT of missile boats.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The "Muskö" must of course be a planetoid:

The "Muskö" Class Orbital Fortress: 2 MdT, Crew: 18 000, GCr 900 + GCr 672 for a full load of missiles.
0G, Armour 15. Buffered Planetoid.
Armament: 2000 Large Missile Bays. Launches 240 000 missiles / attack, priced with 8 rounds of advanced missiles.
Defences: Armour 15. 10000 PD Batteries.

TL 15         HullP 2 133 333                   1 576 400      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      2000000          400000  20000  
Config  Buffered Planetoid   7     7       700000    8000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    11       176000   88000      
Rad Shielding                1     1                50000      
Repair Drones                1     1        20000    4000      
                  
ManœuvreD                    0          1   10000   20000                  286
PowerP                                  1   40251   80502  805020         1150
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    4025        
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80   15000      
    Holographic              1          1            3750      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1   20000   20000      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100% 11819 11819  47276    5910      
Common Areas               50%   50%    1   23638    2364      
Briefing Room              100        100     400      50      
Library                    100        100     400     400      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        360    1440     720      
Workshop                   500        500    3000     450      
Armoury                      1        720    1440     360      
Brig                       100        100     400      25      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                       31516        
UNREP                     1000       1000    1000     500    1000 
                  
Large Bay                  
Missile  High Technology  2000  TL10 2000  700000  375000  100000  10000  2000
                  
Missiles                     8    1920000          672000      
                  
Point Defence Type III   10000      10000  180000  220000  300000  10000  
                                    
Boat Bay                                    35000    7000                 1000
                                
                  
                  
Crew             18000              
  Command         1637  
  Bridge             3  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           0
  Sensor & EW      372  
  Engineer        5436  
      Engineer          1436
      Maintenance       4000
  Service         2352  
      Admin             2000
      Medic              151,7583333
      Steward            200
  Gunner          2200  
  Flight          1000  
  Troops          5000  


Passengers    
  High            2000
  Mid                0

35 000 dT Hangar, 2 000 staterooms for transients, 30 000 dT cargo.
It should handle a few BatRons, but unfortunately also costs like a BatRon or two...
You would need to attack it with a fleet launching 165 000 missiles / round to kill it. That would be something like 1.5 - 2.0 MdT or TCr 2 - 2.5 of missile boats. If the attacker didn't jump out the fortress would kill something like 5 MdT of missile boats.

 

[Nerhesi]

If you have missiles you simply move into Distant, launch a few salvoes and micro-jump before the fortress' missiles reach you. If you overwhelm the fortress' escort PD you can kill it at will...

And a week later, when you emerge from jumpspace the fortress will have repaired and re-supplied...

Unless of course if it's obliterated. However, this is a moot point because:

Your fleet ships are actually arriving in at random times due to jump mechanics. When each group jumps in, it can check if there is still a fortress there or a bunch of debris. If there is a fortress.. launch salovs and leave. If there is only debris from a previously existing fortress - go ahead and take the planet.

Anyways - all this really shows is use ships not fixed fortresses. Unless you have many adjacent ones and the smallers ones with PD then you're just cool

 

[phavoc]

If you have missiles you simply move into Distant, launch a few salvoes and micro-jump before the fortress' missiles reach you. If you overwhelm the fortress' escort PD you can kill it at will...

And a week later, when you emerge from jumpspace the fortress will have repaired and re-supplied...

Unless of course if it's obliterated. However, this is a moot point because:

Your fleet ships are actually arriving in at random times due to jump mechanics. When each group jumps in, it can check if there is still a fortress there or a bunch of debris. If there is a fortress.. launch salovs and leave. If there is only debris from a previously existing fortress - go ahead and take the planet.

Anyways - all this really shows is use ships not fixed fortresses. Unless you have many adjacent ones and the smallers ones with PD then you're just cool

You can get that down to your fleet arriving more or less at the same time (in MGT v1 you had Sector Fleet supplement... though HG really should have some sort of fleet jumping mechanic because, yanno, it would be a crucial part of any FLEET operation, not to mention if say the PC's were hired to escort a freighter... gee, that would belong in the CRB then! sigh....). But from a naval perspective that's why you arrive far enough away for your fleet to assemble. Nobody fights in deep space because it's pretty pointless - not to mention it could be a lure to get you away from your target you are meant to defend.

For a fleet to jump IN, fire, then jump OUT it would have to maneuver towards the station from outside the 100D limit - which is beyond missile range. So actually the fleet has to wade INTO a gravity well in order to engage a target orbiting it. No micro-jumps, no jumping at all. Plus the defenders get to land N-1 salvoes for every salvo fired at them - assuming the attacker always wins initiative. Though really at long range, attacks should be simultaneous due to time and distance.

And.... don't forget a ship jumping INTO a system could be coming in with empty tanks, and thus has to refuel / win the battle or stop and wait for tankers to come in and refuel them. Tankers make for tasty targets for fighter attacks and such.

Finally, you can make a 20 million Dton fortress out of an asteriod. It would take the equivalent of 40 Tigress class ships to just equal it's tonnage, and at least a dozen or so more in order to equal it's firepower. Fortresses need no maneuver drives, no jump fuel tanks. They can devote all their tonnage to defenses. Their chief limitation is you can't easily maneuver them to where the battle is, so you have to plan ahead.

Assuming it's a fair battle, the fortress can be repaired using resources from the planet it's guarding (usually). No fleet can ever hope to match the supply capability of a planet. It's why some defensive nuggets get bypassed - because they are too hard to crack. Look at how the Zho bypassed Jewell, and how it can maintain itself in such a precarious position right next to the Zho empire. That and a TL advantage make it too expensive to invest and take down.

 

[Nerhesi]

I think you may have missed some key rules here Phavoc.. or perhaps I have?

a) Your fleet is going to be arriving within a few hours or days of eachother - like I said. You have no control however over the random 6D hours of jump-duration.

For a fleet to jump IN, fire, then jump OUT it would have to maneuver towards the station from outside the 100D limit - which is beyond missile range.

b) Against a space stations, missiles and torps can be used at any range as per MGT2 Spacestation rules (so even Far range - aka 5 x 10^6 km - well outside of 100D boundry for the stars). The cost here is a not-insignificant bonus to PD. But it means you need PD nonetheless as I've stated.

This is in-line with MGT1, where attacks against space stations could be made from 1 range band further (which basically meant that you could attack space stations without being attacked back - so MGT1 had really screwed stations over in this regard).

The assumption here is that you *can* do this - not how possible it is for a specific scenario for a fleet to jump in and still be able to jump out. But is this strategy even possible? Absolutely..

Now if this base was at a crucial point with J4 distance between any other hydrogen source.. then yes, that may pose some issues till you somehow string-out your tankers at a deep-space refueling point.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The fortresses are built using the ship system, giving them M-1 is a trivial cost. So they count as ships.

The fortresses will likely orbit a planet or gas giant, so probably well within the 100D limit.

The Muskö class has reasonable PD, it stops 100000 missiles per round. You need to concentrate a fleet to kill it.

So, you jump in far out, assemble the fleet in formation, make sure you PD can kill 250 000 missiles per attack, then you sail in and kill the fortress. That takes more than five BatRons of my reasonable 135 kT BB (in the cruiser thread).

Like any fortress it cannot win, but it can slow the enemy down and limit his options.

For a planetary fleet is can be attractive simply because the subsector or Imperial fleet cannot commandeer it and jump it out, just make sure the fortress is bigger than available transport.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The assumption here is that you *can* do this - not how possible it is for a specific scenario for a fleet to jump in and still be able to jump out. But is this strategy even possible? Absolutely..

Now if this base was at a crucial point with J4 distance between any other hydrogen source.. then yes, that may pose some issues till you somehow string-out your tankers at a deep-space refueling point.

A careful, by the book Admiral would never jump into combat to arrive with empty tanks, unless refuelling is completely assured.

But it takes time to conjure up drop tanks, requisition tankers, or use transports to build a deep space fuel depot. Time the enemy might not have.

 

[Chas]

The assumption here is that you *can* do this - not how possible it is for a specific scenario for a fleet to jump in and still be able to jump out. But is this strategy even possible? Absolutely..

Now if this base was at a crucial point with J4 distance between any other hydrogen source.. then yes, that may pose some issues till you somehow string-out your tankers at a deep-space refueling point.

A careful, by the book Admiral would never jump into combat to arrive with empty tanks, unless refuelling is completely assured.

But it takes time to conjure up drop tanks, requisition tankers, or use transports to build a deep space fuel depot. Time the enemy might not have.

I've got the designs for this. Let me just pull a couple more things together then start getting them up. Right now I want to get it in my ship designs and my mind roughly what I should be spending on PD, I'm already guesstimating on screens and want to get these reasonably realistic.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Muskö, refit 1. We squeeze in a bigger M-Drive and Power Plant to get M-1. We lose a kT cargo. We lose ~100 marines to house more engineers.

The "Muskö" Class Orbital Fortress: 2 MdT, Crew: 18 000, GCr 905 + GCr 672 for a full load of missiles.
1G, Armour 15. Buffered Planetoid.
Armament: 2000 Large Missile Bays. Launches 240 000 missiles / attack, priced with 8 rounds of advanced missiles.
Defences: Armour 15. 10000 PD Batteries.

TL 15         HullP 2 133 333                   1 578 456      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      2000000          400000  20000  
Config  Buffered Planetoid   7     7       700000    8000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    11       176000   88000      
Rad Shielding                1     1                50000      
Repair Drones                1     1        20000    4000      
                  
ManœuvreD HiTech.3*RedSize   1     1    1   14000   42000  100000         400
PowerP    TL12,3*RedSize                1   42006   63008  900120        1200
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    4201

 

[phavoc]

I think you may have missed some key rules here Phavoc.. or perhaps I have?

a) Your fleet is going to be arriving within a few hours or days of eachother - like I said. You have no control however over the random 6D hours of jump-duration.

For a fleet to jump IN, fire, then jump OUT it would have to maneuver towards the station from outside the 100D limit - which is beyond missile range.

b) Against a space stations, missiles and torps can be used at any range as per MGT2 Spacestation rules (so even Far range - aka 5 x 10^6 km - well outside of 100D boundry for the stars). The cost here is a not-insignificant bonus to PD. But it means you need PD nonetheless as I've stated.

This is in-line with MGT1, where attacks against space stations could be made from 1 range band further (which basically meant that you could attack space stations without being attacked back - so MGT1 had really screwed stations over in this regard).

The assumption here is that you *can* do this - not how possible it is for a specific scenario for a fleet to jump in and still be able to jump out. But is this strategy even possible? Absolutely..

Now if this base was at a crucial point with J4 distance between any other hydrogen source.. then yes, that may pose some issues till you somehow string-out your tankers at a deep-space refueling point.

I had not seen the unlimited distance rules. It makes sense. But that assumes the defenders would not create massive PD capabilities for just such a thing. And an attacking fleet would empty it's magazines to do that, hoping it was able to get some attacks through. Missiles fired on a ballistic trajectory that far out would be subject to many, many attacks by defending craft - attacks your fleet at a distance could do nothing to stop.

So yes, I agree that a fleet can jump into a system beyond the 100D limit of a planet, make a massed missile attack on an orbital, and then jump out while remaining beyond the 100D limit. That has always been allowed in the rules. This sort of attack sounds good on paper, but on paper you have just as many defensive operations to negate it - at a great costs in credits to your attackers to pay for all those missiles.

The unlimited ballistic range on torps and missiles should provide a bonus to PD, however, since the missiles have used up their fuel and are in a pure ballistic path. Easy pickings for point defense on the station. Sensors will be tracking them all the way from launch. And with the ability of EW to get an attack per turn... think how many turns those missiles are gonna be in transit to their target. I doubt many will make it to the point where they are a threat, not against a military target with equivalent defenses.

This would work if fortresses were relatively small. One thing the defender could do would be to get a larger planetoid, put their base on one side, then rotate the empty side toward the enemy in times of massed missile attacks. The missiles would impact empty rock, doing no damage to the actual base itself. The question would be how much it would cost to install engines. Then again, it would probably be far cheaper than what an attacker is going to spend on wasted munitions.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Muskö, refit 2. Switch to equal cost torpedoes. Same cost to build, cheaper to reload. Better at penetrating PD, more Hull.

The "Muskö III" Class Orbital Fortress: 3.5 MdT, Crew: 32 000, GCr 935 + GCr 500 for a full load of torpedoes.
1G, Armour 15. Buffered Planetoid.
Armament: 3500 Large Missile Bays. Launches 105 000 torpedoes / attack, priced with 8 rounds of multi warhead nuclear torpedoes.
Defences: Armour 15. 17500 PD Batteries.

TL 15          HullP 3 733 333                  1 439 507      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                      3500000          700000  35000  
Config  Buffered Planetoid   7     7      1225000   14000      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    11       308000   12320      
Rad Shielding                1     1                87500      
Repair Drones                1     1        35000    7000      
                  
ManœuvreD  HiTech.3*RedSize  1     1    1   24500   73500  175000          700
PowerP  TL12,3*RedSize                  1   69422  104133 1487620         1983
Fuel, Power                10w   10w    1   17356  
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     868      43                  
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80   26250      
    Holographic              1          1            6563      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1             120      
    /fib                     1          1             125
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1   35000   35000      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100% 19454 19454  77816    9727      
Common Areas               50%   50%    1   38908    3891      
Briefing Room              100        100     400      50      
Library                    100        100     400     400      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1        640    2560    1280      
Workshop                   500        500    3000     450      
Armoury                      1       1280    1280     320      
Brig                       100        100     400      25      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                       69776        
UNREP                      100        100     100      50     100 
     
Large Bay                  
Torpedo  High Technology 3500  TL12  3500 1225000  157500   87500  17500  3500
                  
Missiles  105000 torp/at    8      840000          504000      
                  
Point Defence Type III  17500       17500  315000  385000  525000  17500  
                  
Boat Bay                                    50000   10000                 1000
                  
                  
                  
Crew                31999              
  Command            2909  
  Bridge              599  
      Pilot                   3
      Astrogator              0
      Sensor & EW           596  
  Engineer           9684  
      Engineer             2683
      Maintenance          7000
  Service            3957  
      Admin                3500
      Medic                 256,9416667
      Steward               200
  Gunner             3850  
  Flight             1000  
  Troops            10000  
  
Passengers    
  High               2000

Benchmark:
30 Hades-Class BCs would kill 16800 torpedoes / att. 88200 torpedoes would hit doing 1893654 damage killing 25 Hades-class BCs in a single salvo. Those 30 BCs would be twice the cost of the fortress.
The attacker would need 190 Hades-class BCs to safely engage and destroy the fortress.
75 - 100 Hades-class BCs would destroy the fortress, but with heavy losses.