Basic Conan

[rabindranath72]

Someone in a recent thread mentioned a Basic Conan, a game which could be picked up and played without a long startup time.
I guess this idea can be tied with other recent discussions about grittiness and systems other than d20 to play Conan.
Being a d20 game, it is not easy to start a new game with new people, unless they know d20. And even in these cases, it takes quite a lot of time to create a PC. And long creation (and maintenance) times can reduce the grittiness of the game; why? Because the GM can be loathe to kill characters which have taken hours to create. One of the sources of grittiness of previous D&D versions was the fact that TPKs were always possible since the DMs were not afraid to pull punches. PCs could easily die at the first session; character creation only took a few minutes. It also helped that the choices of race and class were quite limited and easily understood.
I guess these aspects are among the main things which some do not like about d20, so they move to other games. But it can be frustrating to have a nice book, and not using it (at least, this is so for me).
So, the idea: can the core d20 Conan book be used to have an easy pickup game, without going to other games? This obviously implies choices, which may not be easy to carry out. Someway one should simplify and streamline things, but the core idea is to use the whole book as a "toolbox".

My proposal for a Basic Conan

- Maximum level is 6th, for a heroic-level campaign (see the E6 rationale).
- Defences are replaced by Armor Class (calculated as 10+Dex mod.+shield mod.+armor DR+size mod.)
- Magic attack roll is replaced by a static DC=10+MaB+Cha mod.
- Feats for favoured class are preselected. Bonus level feats are removed (option: free choice of bonus level feats)
- Skill points are removed. Class skills are preselected and automatically maximised (option: except for one free skill choice). No bonus skills for intelligence.
- Background skills are removed
- The list of classes is limited
- The list of races is limited
- Attacks of opportunity are removed (as also suggested in the core Conan AE) or reduced in scope.

Classes
The following classes are the ones which more commonly appear in Conan stories, and are the most flexible w.r.t. campaign types. Scholar are automatically assumed to be sorcerers.

Soldier
Class Feats: Weapon focus (1), Power Attack (2), Weapon specialisation (4), Cleave (6) - Favored class feat: Exotic weapon proficiency (1), Improved initiative (5)
Skills: Intimidate, (Ride)

Barbarian
Favored class feat: Great fortitude (1), Toughness (5)
Skills: Survival, Ride, Intimidate, (Move silently)

Thief
Favored class feat: Lightning reflexes (1), Sneak subdual (5)
Skills: Climb, Hide, Listen, Move silently, Open lock, Sleight of hand, Disable device, (Decipher script)

Sorcerer
Favored class feat: Skill focus (1), Ritual Sacrifice (5)
Skills: Decipher script, Craft (herbalism), Craft (alchemy), Perform (ritual), Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (history), (Heal)

Races
Analogous to classes, we choose races which naturally pair with classes to get strong archetypes.

Hyborian (base), Gunderman (soldier), Cimmerian (barbarian), Zamorian (thief), Stygian (sorcerer)

 

[Krushnak]

being a d20 game, it is not easy to start a new game with new people, unless they know d20.

I have had plenty of experiences to the contrary of that statement, including both my own introduction into the hobby aswell as several other people i know.

- Defences are replaced by Armor Class
- Feats for favoured class are preselected. Bonus level feats are removed (option: free choice of bonus level feats)
- Skill points are removed. Class skills are preselected and automatically maximised (option: except for one free skill choice). No bonus skills for intelligence.
- Background skills are removed
- The list of classes is limited
- The list of races is limited

wow everything i hated about earlier editions of d&d coming back to haunt me.

 

[Hervé]

Or maybe just try a simpler system... let me think... Basic Conan as in Basic Roleplaying, maybe? :roll:

 

[rabindranath72]

being a d20 game, it is not easy to start a new game with new people, unless they know d20.

I have had plenty of experiences to the contrary of that statement, including both my own introduction into the hobby aswell as several other people i know.

- Defences are replaced by Armor Class
- Feats for favoured class are preselected. Bonus level feats are removed (option: free choice of bonus level feats)
- Skill points are removed. Class skills are preselected and automatically maximised (option: except for one free skill choice). No bonus skills for intelligence.
- Background skills are removed
- The list of classes is limited
- The list of races is limited

wow everything i hated about earlier editions of d&d coming back to haunt me.

Completely opposite to my experience. As always YMMV.

And...YES! All I loved about earlier editions can be done also here! :lol:

 

[rabindranath72]

Or maybe just try a simpler system... let me think... Basic Conan as in Basic Roleplaying, maybe? :roll:

Eh, yes...but as I said, I would like to use just the core book :?

 

[Hervé]

Some people on this forum seem to think that Castles & Crusades is doing well as a "Basic D20". Maybe you should take some hints in that direction?

 

[Supplement Four]

So, the idea: can the core d20 Conan book be used to have an easy pickup game, without going to other games?

No matter how you slice it, I think d20 (Conan or not) is not "simple" for a quick pick-up game, unless all involved are familiar with the core d20 mechanics.

I've been setting up my campaign, and it's taken me weeks (I'm still reading) to read, re-read, and set-up everything I need for our first game session coming next week.

There is a lot of "up front" time required of the GM with d20 games. But, I knew this going into it.

Still, there are some measures I've taken to lighten the load.


1 - I limited the choice of character class (to Commoners, Borderers, Soldiers, and Thieves in my game).

This way, I only have to read and be familiar with a few of the classes (and I have every intention of opening up other classes for replacement/additional NPCs or multiclassing later).



2 - I limited the race to one race.

In this games, its Zamorians I'm using. I did this not only for story reasons, but to keep the amount of things I need to review as a GM to a minimum (which is still quite a lot of work for the GM).



3 - I picked a very simple adventure to run.

I didn't create my own (although I have made some story tweaks), because that would have taken a lot of time. I think linear adventures are best run early when learning a new system (this happens, then this happens, then this happens, etc). Later, when I'm more familiar with the game system, I can move in more complex narrative.



4 - I've kept house rules to a minimum.

Some on this board will laugh at this point, but that's just because of their wrong perceptions. Playing the game straight from the book is important when learning a game system. I've really only added one tweak: That is, we will use Active Defense instead of Static Defense. But, it's a simple concept to use and implement, and it doesn't change the game (in the long run) one iota.







The basic concepts of d20 Conan are easy to get. There is an attack throw. Defender has two choices of defense--to parry or dodge. Once a hit is made, armor piercing is compared to damage reduction. Then, damage is rolled.

Take that basic concept, then start adding in the exceptions, like Finess Combat, being caught Flat Footed, and certain restrictions to actions in a round, movement options, etc.

The d20 system isn't complicated because of the base system. That can be learned pretty quickly. The reason the d20 system is complicated is all the exceptions to the basic rules. That's what feats and skills and combat maneuvers are all about. Exceptions.

Keeping up with these exceptions is a tough job.

But, also remember, it's these exceptions that makes d20 enjoyable. Remove feats and skills and abilities and combat maneuvers from the game, and d20 becomes rather bland.


I should add one more point above to starting a new d20 Conan game with players unfamiliar to d20...



5 - Start at 1st level.

Some people start using more advanced characters, but what you want to do as a GM running a new d20 is continue to limit aspects of the game, and then layer new aspects in as the players become familair with the rules. Learn one thing, and when comfortable with that, add a new thing, and so on.







If I were giving advice to someone wanting to run a d20 Conan game with players unfamiliar with the d20 system, I'd tell them the five points above.

I'd remind them that d20 is not a good choice for a pick up game unless all players are already familiar with d20. The GM needs to be ready to devote a lot of up front prep time, because the game system requires it (otherwise, your first game turns into a library session as you look up stuff every other game round).

Choose a very simple concept, and then build from there if the game continues.

Allowing only Soldier class characters who are slave pit fighters is an excellent way to kick off a game. This way, your first session is all about learning the combat system. The PCs have an excellent method of getting to know each other (they had no choice, being thrown together into the ring!). And, not all the fights need to be to-the-death. The GM can call the fight once a character reaches 25% hit points, or the like.

PCs can then scheme to overcome their slave lords and gain their freedom. By that time, all the players should be comfortable with the basics of the fight, and they should be learning their feats/skills/combat maneuvers/special abilites. They'll be ready to learn something new...like new feats/skills/combat maneuvers/special abilities...and multiclassing.



Oh...one more point for my "list"....

6 - Utilize e-mail in between games.

Since my campaign is set in Zamora, I've dug up pics on the net that look like Zamora. I've even found some old castles in Spain that, taken from a distance, really give the players that feel of arid, rocky, mountainous terrain. I've even found a few pictures of people with dark mediterreanian features so that the players will have a good idea in their heads of where their characters are from.

I've made simple notes in e-mail detailing how armor piercing works...how finesse fighting works...how defense rating works...how dodge and parry works...what "flat footed" means...how initiative works...how STR effects bows...etc.

My players read this, before game, and get a good feel for what to expect. They may not understand it all, but it helps them "get it" when we start the first game.

And, just the act of writing those e-mails is a way for the GM (me) to learn the concepts inside and out.

Remember...the players really don't need to know any of the rules. It's beneficial if they know their feats and skills and abilities and combat maneuvers (because the GM can't be expected to keep up with all that). But, really, all the players need to do is tell the GM what they want their characters to do in the game.

It's up to the GM to adjudicate those moves based on the rules.

 

[rabindranath72]

Some people on this forum seem to think that Castles & Crusades is doing well as a "Basic D20". Maybe you should take some hints in that direction?

Me too! If you look at what I have written for C&C both here and on the TLG forums, you will see my preference for C&C. But the "experiment" was to try to run a game using only the core Conan rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

1 - I limited the choice of character class



2 - I limited the race to one race.



3 - I picked a very simple adventure to run.



4 - I've kept house rules to a minimum.



5 - Start at 1st level.



6 - Utilize e-mail in between games.

One more thing I'd add to this list is...

7 - Keep the gaming group small.

I believe the best sized gaming group is 3-4 players plus a GM. That way, there's plenty of diversity among the players when problem solving, and the group is at a manageable size during the game. People aren't getting bored, waiting for their turn. Scheduling game sessions usually isn't much of a problem with 3-4 dedicated players. And, if you need to, you can always have the player play one or more PCs.

When I announced that I was going to run a Conan game, word got out amoung the usual suspects, and I had seven players wanting to play.

I've been able to cull that group down to just three players, which will kick off the campaign next Sat.

I didn't tell anybody they couldn't play--I just went with the most flexible schedule-wise, and I told the others that they could join us later when their real life schedules changed. I expect one or two will join the campaign later.

I wanted a flexible group that would play once a month or so--people who would play just about anytime on the weekends. For about six hours at a stretch.

I know I have one player who will join us after Christmas, and he's a fantastic player. He's been one of my "regulars" over the last 18 years (we started gaming together in 1990). The problem is, he's got a busy life. He's got two kids with a third on the way, and his work takes a lot of his time. He's divorced, so that wipes out every other weekend (hurts our flexibility) because he's got his kids. His current wife is pregnant.

As I said, this guy is a fantastic player. I'd like him to join us. But, his time restrictions just might kill the group.

These are things GMs must weigh in order to keep a healthy, fun, gaming group returning session after session.

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

Start with these rules.



Alter as necessary. 8)



Or....

I have just come into possession of the rules for Classic Traveller and was amazed how simple the rules are (d6's only; chargen is six abilities with 2d6, thus a range of 2-12; success at attack roll is 8 or higher on 2d6; simple skill list; etc.). Perhaps a Conanesque ruleset could be composed to take advantage of these simpler rules instead of D&D or other systems. As always the hardest thing to engineer would be the magic system. Good luck.

 

[Supplement Four]

I have just come into possession of the rules for Classic Traveller ...

My favorite pnp rpg of all time!

...Perhaps a Conanesque ruleset could be composed to take advantage of these simpler rules instead of D&D or other systems.

Magic would be easy. Just use the psionics rules as a starting point.

There are two fantasy rule sets based on CT that I know of. One was published long ago at the first attempt to bring Thieves World to pnp rpgs. That boxed set used several of the popular game systems of the time--Traveller being one of them.

The other set of fantasy rules based on CT is fan made, and you can find information about it in this thread on the CotI forum: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=11081



Conan's grit and dark fantasy atmosphere could be easily translated to the CT game system.

I've thought about doing it myself, in the past. I bet it would be fun!

 

[Ichabod]

My take on simplifying Conan:

1. Every PC is a Hyborian
2. Class choices are barbarian or thief
3. Can't take the Dabbler feat
4. No AOO
5. No grappling
6. No fighting defensively, no full attacks
7. Poison is a single save
8. No combat maneuvers

 

[rabindranath72]

Start with these rules.



Alter as necessary. 8)



Or....

I have just come into possession of the rules for Classic Traveller and was amazed how simple the rules are (d6's only; chargen is six abilities with 2d6, thus a range of 2-12; success at attack roll is 8 or higher on 2d6; simple skill list; etc.). Perhaps a Conanesque ruleset could be composed to take advantage of these simpler rules instead of D&D or other systems. As always the hardest thing to engineer would be the magic system. Good luck.

Yep! That's what I am doing right now: a Mentzer Basic/Expert/Companion "add-on" to use some d20 Conan material (namely sorcery)

 

[kintire]

And long creation (and maintenance) times can reduce the grittiness of the game; why? Because the GM can be loathe to kill characters which have taken hours to create. One of the sources of grittiness of previous D&D versions was the fact that TPKs were always possible since the DMs were not afraid to pull punches. PCs could easily die at the first session; character creation only took a few minutes. It also helped that the choices of race and class were quite limited and easily understood.

I have recent experience of introducing a new player to Conan. Never played d20 before. Character creation took about 20 minutes.

I see no reason to limit race or class choices, except that starting players should probably not play sorcerers. Races are pretty simple and self explanatory really: a couple of stat bonuses and a few feats. Classes are more significant, but at low levels the differences are minor.

The basic D20 mechanic is also very simple: roll, add this, get higher than this. I see no reason to limit defences, they all work the same way and the numbers don't change. Skills are also intuitive.

Feats are the problem area: there are loads of them and they are explained in rather jargon heavy ways. But a first level character will only have a few.

Maneuvers probably need to be left out at first. I had no problems with AoOs either. I realise people have trouble with them, but I just view them as "do something other than fight next to your enemy and they hit you" and run with that.

But mostly I'm with Krushnak: Let them produce the character they want! They'll enjoy it more

I've been setting up my campaign, and it's taken me weeks (I'm still reading) to read, re-read, and set-up everything I need for our first game session coming next week.

There is a lot of "up front" time required of the GM with d20 games. But, I knew this going into it.

Personally, I produce an NPC list, a couple of maps and get an idea of the flow of events. I don't think I've ever had more than a side of A4 in notes, and most of that is map. Styles vary I guess!

- Keep the gaming group small.

I believe the best sized gaming group is 3-4 players plus a GM.

When introducing a new player I think this is more important than any mechanical alteration. If you have the time to devote to the player they will learn quickly, and if you don't they won't. Small groups are vital for first games.

 

[rabindranath72]

I have recent experience of introducing a new player to Conan. Never played d20 before. Character creation took about 20 minutes.

Excellent time. Obviously he did not read all of the feats or skills, what they could do, how they could be applied and combined etc. ?

I am more and more convinced that Basic D&D or C&C will do for us.

 

[Ichabod]

I have recent experience of introducing a new player to Conan. Never played d20 before. Character creation took about 20 minutes.

Excellent time. Obviously he did not read all of the feats or skills, what they could do, how they could be applied and combined etc. ?

I am more and more convinced that Basic D&D or C&C will do for us.

Designing a well built character will take more time, though even then, it's not playing at 1st level that's so much the issue as projecting ahead what you want the character to look like at, say, 8th level that requires thinking about what you do at 1st level.

I can see designing a "let's just play, you can rebuild the character later" character in 20 minutes. There's no real reason to lock in anything about a character's numbers until the player understands how the system works. As I knew virtually nothing about how d20 worked in practice when I started playing Conan, I built a virtually unimaginably inefficient character to where if I could have redone things at around 3rd or 4th level, I would have changed attributes, classes, skills, feats, and weapon choice. On the other hand, I didn't and I still play the character and it's okay, if often frustrating, because he isn't the only mistake in the party, he has developed in character (personality, et al), and he has his moments due to dice rolling creating randomness in resolution.

Concept, some numbers that seem intuitive for the concept, play ... fix later.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Hyborian races could be as simple as a very minimal bonus/penalty to the initial ability- or other rolls (say, no more than +1 or -1) with a restrained application of feat-like features. Frex, Cimmerians would get +1 to Str; Khitans perhaps a +1 to Int; Nordheimer types a +1 "to hit" with (one-handed) swords, and so on. Obviously it would be waaay too easy to get carried away with porting over a lot of crunch. Remember, the whole point of this exercise is to strip away most unneccessary crunch in favour of elegance. :wink: The emphasis should be on ROLE playing, not ROLL playing. :wink: There doesn't have to be a rule for every grain of sand in the Thurian continent!

Ideally you should be able to completely stat out a new (N)PC in 10 minutes or less. That's realistic for BD&D but certainly not d20 of any stripe.

You could rule that all weapons do 1d6 base damage (as in Basic D&D).

You could keep the concept of power points. A level one spell requires 1 PP; a level 9 spell needs the expenditure of 9 PP, etc.

I love the "terror of the unknown" mechanic, so I'd keep it in some guise.

 

[Aragorn300]

Part of the problem is the fact you have levels in any D20 which means you have to work up to what you want to play, and that means newbies have to learn, add, and figure 5 or 6 levels worth of stuff.


I have been working on a Leveless version of d20 for another project. Since I am going to put it out OGL on the internet anyway, I might as well whip out some of it now and you loyal Conan gamers can adapt it.
(If you like it please give me credit, if not, you never saw it)
--you end up with a character who is about on the "sweet spot" of 5th to 10th level...it is also great for generating NPCs for any D20. It takes maybe 10 minutes to make a character.....Most rules they can learn on the fly from a good GM once the character is made.

You roll base scores or buy with points as normal. Then you figure the following:

Defence=Dex score
Melee Base Attack Bonus = 5+Str bonus if proficient, 1+ Str if not.
Ranged Attack Bonus=5+Dex bonus if proficient, 1+ Dex if not.
Fort save=Con bonus+Str bonus (minimum of +3)
Reflex save=Dex bonus+Int bonus (minimum of +3)
Will save=Wis bonus+ Cha bonus (minimum of +3)
Hit Points=Con Score times 4

CLASS: For mine I have actual packages, but for Conan, the GM or an experienced player can make it in a few minutes of their time. Choose a single class special ability and get it as if you were a 5th level character
For example, a Sneak Attack from 3.5 D&D would be +3d6 and Smite would be 2/day.
Skills: To speed up selection, the GM chooses half of the class skills to be "Trained" and half "untrained"
With the Trained skills the skill roll is 1d20+modifer +6
With Untrained the skill roll is 1d20+modifier
forget "cross class" for the sake of simplicity.

Feats
I then have 6 feats they can choose from (they can also randomly roll 1d6 to choose them). If they roll or choose the same one multiple times, it doesnt matter because they are all self stacking. And instead of saying "full attack" I simply say "move and attack action" so that that is one less thing to learn.
Roll-1d12- Feat Effects
1. Precision Attack Choose a specific weapon type. With that weapon type, if you use both your move an attack action to make the attack you gain a +2 to the attack roll. You can take this feat multiple times, each additional time the bonus increases an additional +2 to the attack roll when using both your move and attack action. This cannot be combined with other feats that use both your move and attack action.
2. Power Cleave You can subtract 5 from your melee attack roll to +4 to your damage on an attack. So if you were going to add +7 on your attack roll, you add +3 to attack instead, and do +4 more damage. Also anytime you drop your opponent to zero or less hit points, or drop him to unconsciousness, then you immediately get a single melee attack as a free action against an adjacent square. You may take this feat multiple times, each additional time you take this feat you add +2 more to damage when you take –5 to your attack roll. So if you took this 3 times you would subtract 5 from your attack roll and add +9 to damage.
3. Multiple Attack Expertise Choose a single weapon type. With that weapon type if you can attack on you move action in addition to your attack action but suffer a –4 penalty to all attacks that round, both the move attack and the regular attack action. You can take this feat multiple times, each additional time the penalty is reduced by 1. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, your penalty would be down to –2.
4. Rapid Attack Expertise Choose a single weapon type. With that weapon type,, you can do a rapid attack vs. 1 target doing extra damage. You make one attack roll with a –2 penalty, and do +1 die of damage more than a single attack would normally do. If using a ranged weapon you expend two shots doing so. Basically, you swing or thrust a melee weapon twice or fire a ranged weapon twice. You can take this feat multiple times. Each additional time, You do +1 die more damage but the penalty also increases by –2 more. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, you could do +3 dice more damage with a penalty of –6 . With ranged weapons this also means you expend more ammunition at a rate of one additional round for each +1 die of damage.
5. DualWeaponFighting If you have a similar weapon in each hand (same damage type), you can make an extra attack with your offhand on your move action, at –4 penalty to all attacks that round(with both hands) instead of –8 using two weapons normally inflicts . The extra attack is a separate attack roll (with the same penalty). You can take this feat multiple times, each additional time the penalty is reduced by 1. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, your penalty would be down to –2.
6. Close QuartersShot Choose a specific opponent at the beginning of a round. Against that person you do +1 to attack and damage rolls with a ranged weapon so long your chosen target is no more than 6 squares away from you. If that opponent is dead, unconscious or fleeing, you can choose another target.You can take this feat multiple times, each time the bonus increases an additional +1 to attack and damage.

 

[Supplement Four]

My proposal for a Basic Conan

It seems like True20 would be a good conversion choice for Conan is "basic" and "simplicity" were the goal.

 

[rabindranath72]

Tried True 20, but apart a simplification in combat and skills (good), it handles all special abilities by feats (bad). Also, the damage system is "strange" (to put it simply). I did not quite like it.
There is a Conan version done with True 20 on the internet, but I cannot recall where it is.