Attacking after dealing an Impale.

[danskmacabre]

A situation like this came up at a recent gaming session.
So Attacker A Stabs defender B in the Abdomen. He gets a CM and chooses Impale.

Next action, lets assume Defender is still impaled. Attacker, instead of wanting to keep him impaled or pull out the spear wants to jab the spear in further.

How would you rule this?

Allow an extra attack ignoring armor when calculating damage?
Automatic damage. No need for an attack, apply damage bonus as well?
Automatic damage. No need for an attack, No damage bonus?
don't allow to jab it in further? (Seems unfair to me)

Something else?

 

[Simulacrum]

Off the top of my head:

The main damage has been done by the initial entry of the weapon. I would suggest that the additional damage that can be done is probably weapon minimum + Strength Bonus

HOWEVER - if you are using a cut and thrust weapon - a gladius or appropriate polearm - it is ideal for ripping from the impale into other parts of the body - and you may go for rolled or even max damage (think also how a tanto is used in seppuku by an impale to the abdomen and then a rip upwards).

 

[danskmacabre]

But is it REALLY going to do as much damage as it will on that thrust?
Maybe it could be argued with a leg or Arm hit you can say it's gone right through, but if you said that on a Head, Abdomen or Chest hit a run through should be a kill shouldn't it?

I saw in re-enactment once a guy actually got speared through the leg. It went right through. Strangely the damage itself wasn't that bad. Sure it hurt a lot and he wasn't walking well, but it healed up pretty fast.

I'd imagine a similar wound in the belly would been near fatal. Especially if the spearman twisted the spear shaft around and kept on pushing through the belly.

 

[Mixster]

Even while Impaled you can still attack with your weapon, it only disallows parries according to page 88 of MRQII.

Thus I'd rule that this is simply an attack, don't assume that the attack roll is actually a to hit roll, but more likely a roll to see whether you can gain the position to drive the spear in further without damaging yourself.
If tries to yank it out though, he should note that he will deal damage without armour points, so it's probably a better bet to just yank it out and put it in again.

Oh and by the way:

I'd imagine a similar wound in the belly would been near fatal. Especially if the spearman twisted the spear shaft around and kept on pushing through the belly.

I can confirm this, most abdominal wounds that aren't penetrating the lungs leave you pretty certain to die if the item goes through you, if somebody starts yanking around the things going through your guts, you'll get pretty severe internal bleeding and would need a good surgeon, fast, a liver hit would probably kill you in a matter of minutes from internal bleeding if pierced by a spear.
And the guy with the spear in the leg was pretty lucky it didn't pierce the artery down there, your bloodpressure in your legs when standing is around 200mmhg, and the artery is pretty large, that amount of bleeding can leave you dead pretty fast unless proper first aid is administered (basically putting the guy on his back, putting his leg in the air and putting some fingers into the artery).

 

[Dan True]

Hm, I would properly handle it like trying to pull it out - just without pulling it out - i.e. a brawn test to inflict damage, just keeping the spear inside him. You may say that each time he thrusts it deeper inside him we will gain a cumulative -10% to future attempts at both thrusting deeper and yanking it out of him (to reflect that if the spear is halfway through him, it's hard to take it out in one fluid motion and attack another enemy).

This is properly not the most realistic way of handling it, but it is only one CM and I would not want to invent extremely realistic house rules for one single CM. Often you don't wan't to drive in more through him, as you can't parry with the weapon and can't attack others.

 

[Mixster]

This is properly not the most realistic way of handling it, but it is only one CM and I would not want to invent extremely realistic house rules for one single CM. Often you don't wan't to drive in more through him, as you can't parry with the weapon and can't attack others.

Actually RAW you can keep stabbing somebody else with your spear even if somebody is impaled on your spear, this seems highly unrealistic though, but could be how Kebab was invented. :wink:

 

[danskmacabre]

Hm, I would properly handle it like trying to pull it out - just without pulling it out - i.e. a brawn test to inflict damage, just keeping the spear inside him. You may say that each time he thrusts it deeper inside him we will gain a cumulative -10% to future attempts at both thrusting deeper and yanking it out of him (to reflect that if the spear is halfway through him, it's hard to take it out in one fluid motion and attack another enemy).

I think I'll go with this, but won't bother with the -10% thing. Not because I disagree with it particularly.
I just can't be bothered with the bookkeeping.

Another interesting thing is the player in question wanted to force the guy back who he stabbed. There are existing rules for this, but it's remote to get a knockback with them. The total damage inflicted if greater than the Size of the opponent, they get knocked back 1 metre for every point of damage over his size.

I believe there's a knockback maneuver as well, Bash, which could do that easy enough.


BTW, thanks for all the comments everyone.