Assumptions on colonisation efforts

Hopeless

Mongoose
I'm not sure how to phrase this since it could easily go wrong or end up in a discourse on hard statistics instead of ideas on running this in a game.

So lets say we have a Traveller version of When Worlds Collide and we have the world slowly becoming aware something is seriously wrong and a conglomerate of business and world leaders attempting to build a number of multi-generational spacecraft to carry a few thousand or more survivors before the end happens.

Now we have the usual bad guys determined to be the ones who succeed and dictate who survives.

My idea for a game involves a smaller ship that's based on an otherwise out dated design that's been upgraded with a working jump drive and the resources to make a trip to a various number of potential new homes but needs to be accomplished as a soon as possible so they can help as many of the inhabitants escape off world.

It would make sense to use Interstellar's idea of multiple missions for this very purpose but the background is that the jump drive is only a recent innovation that currently has only been used to speed up insystem travel so it can make jumps from Earth to Mars orbit and then to the asteroid bely before moving into the outer system requiring it reach about the orbit of Pluto before making the jump out of the solar system.

This ship has an alternate means of speeding that up, but its still very experimental so it will be functioning as a test bed for new designs that if proven will help speed up the evacuation enormously but as I said there are bad guys who'd look upon this as a threat to their plans and if this new technology works they will take whatever steps they can to acquire it.

Magnify that to all the countries on the planet with the capacity for space travel and you have a large number with reasons to secure this ship rather than allow it to leave once they realise it works.

1) The idea for the game is that the players having been passed over as crew for the generation ship have been approached with the job of helping test the new ship's spaceworthiness.
This will eventually involve spaceflight and the revelation that the ship has a working jump drive capable of reducing the time needed to reach another star system enough that more people could be saved.
BUT those involved in the generation ship and eventual colonisation effort will see this ship as both a threat to their long range plans and something they need to secure and reverse engineer as soon as possible since being the only jump capable ship it would give whatever nation or corporation a massive advantage.

2) So my idea is that currently unaware of the true significance of the ship's capabilities there are people intent on kidnapping the inventor which the players will realise and have to take action against when it becomes clear they need to protect both the ship and the inventor to prevent either being killed or destroyed and thereby dooming both them and anyone else they want to save.

How would you see the nations reaction since I'm assuming they'll only become interested once the ship's capabilities are realised?

3) I haven't decided on the source of the threat, I was thinking a wave of force hitting the oort clouds on the edge of the solar system was detected given a potential threat and maybe a time limit on how long they have to escape the solar system.
I am assuming the wave effect is initially blocked by the outer planets but it will eventually pass through the inner planets with say a repeat of that scene from Meteor where an American research ship near the asteroid belt witnesses the leading edge of the wave and is destroyed making it clear there is a danger and the entire world is threatened.

How would you picture this?

4) Should I let the players full rein on designing their characters or just ask them to watch the movie first?

Will think more on this but thanks in advance for your replies!
 
1) Saw no question.
Bullet 2) said:
2) How would you see the nations reaction since I'm assuming they'll only become interested once the ship's capabilities are realised?
A vast many undefined variables.

Lets start with why would the plans for building a jump ship be monopolized and not shared so that others can build more ships and work on saving more people? Why not make all the design details public and let each country or company run with it? The government (military) would likely take over and the "owners" would likely lose control if they tried to keep this to themselves. For this reason, and also because it seams the right thing to do, make the plans public so that your project is not the target of everyone.

Speaking of everyone. If nations know, at some point the public will know. I'd think you'd need to align yourself with a government and military to help protect your project.
Bullet 3) said:
3) How would you picture this [threat]?
It looks like you want a threat that will effect the entire solar system and not just the earth. Something that removes colonizing another planet as an option. Something that removes just somehow protecting oneself and then rebuilding once the threat has passed. Something that makes colonizing a much less habitable world in another system and rebuilding from scratch a better option than just traveling in the generation ship and returning to earth at some point later, after the effects of the danger have passed or deteriorated.

Personally I'd just be vague and say there is a threat to the entire solar system without going into details. Give players details and they will blow holes in it and come up with alternative solutions that may not fit your scenario.
Bullet 4) said:
4) Should I let the players full rein on designing their characters or just ask them to watch the movie first?
Not sure what benefit the movie would be as it is not about running off to another system but somehow surviving here. It instigates what I mention above: players looking for alternative solutions that may not fit your scenario.

Then again, the jump ship may be just one of the many solutions people are grasping at and working on.

In regards to "full rein on designing their characters", it sounded like you had specific roles for the characters. Also some of the careers and skills and tech from the book(s) don't seam to apply to your scenario, so I'd say no.
 
I think the the movie 2012 sort of covers the likely approach the major powers would take regarding species survival.

I'm fairly sure that a Presidential Executive Order would shortcircuit any attempt to monopolize or keep secret something that crucial to species survival, likely backed by both Congress and the Supreme Court.
 
CosmicGamer said:
1) Saw no question.

Sorry had trouble typing this up and should have reread it!
The movie had a group pooling their resources together to prepare for the first sign the event was going to happen.
Would there be any change in how this would be viewed were the events of the movie actually happen today?

Bullet 2) said:
2) How would you see the nations reaction since I'm assuming they'll only become interested once the ship's capabilities are realised?
A vast many undefined variables.

Lets start with why would the plans for building a jump ship be monopolized and not shared so that others can build more ships and work on saving more people? Why not make all the design details public and let each country or company run with it? The government (military) would likely take over and the "owners" would likely lose control if they tried to keep this to themselves. For this reason, and also because it seams the right thing to do, make the plans public so that your project is not the target of everyone.[/quote]

Good point so might be better to explain the ship is carrying an untested prototype designed for use on smaller ships given this is Traveller and there are still pics showing what size computers of the classic era was supposed to look like!

Speaking of everyone. If nations know, at some point the public will know. I'd think you'd need to align yourself with a government and military to help protect your project.


Bullet 3) said:
3) How would you picture this [threat]?
It looks like you want a threat that will effect the entire solar system and not just the earth. Something that removes colonizing another planet as an option. Something that removes just somehow protecting oneself and then rebuilding once the threat has passed. Something that makes colonizing a much less habitable world in another system and rebuilding from scratch a better option than just traveling in the generation ship and returning to earth at some point later, after the effects of the danger have passed or deteriorated.[/quote]

Was thinking rather than an extra solar planetoid and its companion come hurling through the system destroying the Earth but leaving the companion to replace the Earth in a slightly different orbit that the event would make it difficult if not impossible for a generation ship to remain unscathed but your suggestion would be easier to explain.

Personally I'd just be vague and say there is a threat to the entire solar system without going into details. Give players details and they will blow holes in it and come up with alternative solutions that may not fit your scenario.
Bullet 4) said:
4) Should I let the players full rein on designing their characters or just ask them to watch the movie first?
Not sure what benefit the movie would be as it is not about running off to another system but somehow surviving here. It instigates what I mention above: players looking for alternative solutions that may not fit your scenario.

Then again, the jump ship may be just one of the many solutions people are grasping at and working on.

In regards to "full rein on designing their characters", it sounded like you had specific roles for the characters. Also some of the careers and skills and tech from the book(s) don't seam to apply to your scenario, so I'd say no.

This clearly would work better once I got them to design their characters and then alter it to fit around them rather than stipulate everything at once.
 
Condottiere said:
I think the the movie 2012 sort of covers the likely approach the major powers would take regarding species survival.

I'm fairly sure that a Presidential Executive Order would shortcircuit any attempt to monopolize or keep secret something that crucial to species survival, likely backed by both Congress and the Supreme Court.

But what if they wasn't American?
Now that's a scary thought, what if they decided it was too important not to be under their control?
Need to watch that movie!
 
Hopeless said:
Condottiere said:
I think the the movie 2012 sort of covers the likely approach the major powers would take regarding species survival.

I'm fairly sure that a Presidential Executive Order would shortcircuit any attempt to monopolize or keep secret something that crucial to species survival, likely backed by both Congress and the Supreme Court.

But what if they wasn't American?
Now that's a scary thought, what if they decided it was too important not to be under their control?
Need to watch that movie!
tell me, do they call you "Hopeless" because your a fan of "End of the World" Scenarios?
Problem is under such a scenario, most of us would die! I am under no illusions that I would make the cut for the 1000 to be included on the ship, and probably you wouldn't either. Who would decide who gets to survive? It would be survival of the fittest , but what criterion would be used to determine who was fit? Obviously that 1000 couldn't build their own ship, they would need tens of thousands more who would build that ship and be willing to die afterwards in order to rescue the elite 1000. So if you are an Aerospace worker, what incentive have you to work on this project and spend your remaining last days away from your family? Its not like your going to receive or spend your last pay check. But the project will need a launch crew up to the last minute before the spaceship departs, they will need people to stay behind to monitor the systems and then die when the end comes.
 
2. Depends on their culture and how they interact. It's possible to have a peaceful balkanized world where national boundaries are kept in place solely for cultural preservation.
Peaceful: They will probably all band together to save as many people as possible by building as many ships as possible with a free exchange of knowledge a resources.
Antagonistic: If it gets out that only one nation has the technology and the resources to create a starship, the other major powers will demand that the knowledge and resources be shared. Failure to do so will probably result in several of the next major powers allying and launching an invasion force to seize the shipyard. Should the operation fail and their demands are still not met then a world war would probably ensue between the country(s) that have the technology against everybody else.

3. An Earth only catastrophe might be a comet on a collision course with Earth.
A system-wide catastrophe might be a rogue brown dwarf star passing through our system that will throw all of the inner planets out of orbit.

4. Just tell them what services they are from (1 Scout, 2 Navy and 1 Scientist, etc.) and use a custom (scenario specific) skills package to fill in any gaps. Don't tell them about the movie.
 
Solomani666 said:
2. Depends on their culture and how they interact. It's possible to have a peaceful balkanized world where national boundaries are kept in place solely for cultural preservation.
Peaceful: They will probably all band together to save as many people as possible by building as many ships as possible with a free exchange of knowledge a resources.
Antagonistic: If it gets out that only one nation has the technology and the resources to create a starship, the other major powers will demand that the knowledge and resources be shared. Failure to do so will probably result in several of the next major powers allying and launching an invasion force to seize the shipyard. Should the operation fail and their demands are still not met then a world war would probably ensue between the country(s) that have the technology against everybody else.

3. An Earth only catastrophe might be a comet on a collision course with Earth.
A system-wide catastrophe might be a rogue brown dwarf star passing through our system that will throw all of the inner planets out of orbit.

4. Just tell them what services they are from (1 Scout, 2 Navy and 1 Scientist, etc.) and use a custom (scenario specific) skills package to fill in any gaps. Don't tell them about the movie.

I've seen this trope before, colonists from a doomed Earth, the idea is that if you hold a gun to somebody's head, he'll become a genius and invent all sorts of things to save his life, otherwise he is lazy. I don't think impending doom would make us more likely to invent the Jump Drive in the nick of time to save 1000 individuals. Why not have a colonization scenario without Earth's destruction to serve as a motivator? I think if we had the ability to go to the stars, we sould colonize those stars, the fact that we need to in order to save the human race doesn't make the innovations we need suddenly to appear. I think if all we could do is save 1000 individuals, the the human race would most likely perish, if something goes wrong if something is not planned for, thee is no going back after the Earth is destroyed, so I don't much like those scenarios.
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
Obviously that 1000 couldn't build their own ship, they would need tens of thousands more who would build that ship and be willing to die afterwards in order to rescue the elite 1000. So if you are an Aerospace worker, what incentive have you to work on this project and spend your remaining last days away from your family?
1) Somehow the public is kept in the dark as to the impending doom with the individual workers still going about their daily lives.
2) While working on the project you and your family are well provided for within the protection of a compound. Refuse and you are thrown out there with all the rioting, looting, crazed masses to try and survive until the impending end.
3) A lottery system where chances to get a seat are given out as incentive to try and keep people on task.
Tom Kalbfus said:
I think if we had the ability to go to the stars, we sould colonize those stars, the fact that we need to in order to save the human race doesn't make the innovations we need suddenly to appear.
It does make it far easier to gain funding, bring in more people and companies that were busy working on projects that made more sense financially until now, ease up on environmental, safety and other restrictions and so on.
 
CosmicGamer said:
It does make it far easier to gain funding, bring in more people and companies that were busy working on projects that made more sense financially until now, ease up on environmental, safety and other restrictions and so on.

This. The Manhattan pjt. is a good, if not reversed, example.
 
Just finished watching it.

The planet is or was inhabited by another race.
Most likely it was abandoned since they received no radio or other signals from the planet.
Perhaps an Ancients base?
 
CosmicGamer said:
Tom Kalbfus said:
Obviously that 1000 couldn't build their own ship, they would need tens of thousands more who would build that ship and be willing to die afterwards in order to rescue the elite 1000. So if you are an Aerospace worker, what incentive have you to work on this project and spend your remaining last days away from your family?
1) Somehow the public is kept in the dark as to the impending doom with the individual workers still going about their daily lives.
2) While working on the project you and your family are well provided for within the protection of a compound. Refuse and you are thrown out there with all the rioting, looting, crazed masses to try and survive until the impending end.
3) A lottery system where chances to get a seat are given out as incentive to try and keep people on task.
Tom Kalbfus said:
I think if we had the ability to go to the stars, we sould colonize those stars, the fact that we need to in order to save the human race doesn't make the innovations we need suddenly to appear.
It does make it far easier to gain funding, bring in more people and companies that were busy working on projects that made more sense financially until now, ease up on environmental, safety and other restrictions and so on.
Lets say you are the Emperor of the Roman Empire, you just conquered a few provinces, and captured a few slaves, and you say to those slaves, "I want you to invent an automobile otherwise I'll kill you, you got ten days to do it, and I'm putting the entire resources of the Roman Empire at your disposal!"
What do you think, could the slave do it? if he fails then the Emperor will kill him. Does that make him smart enough to invent the automobile in a tech level 1 society if his life depended on it?
 
Nasrudin was caught in the act and sentenced to die. Hauled up before the king, he was asked by the Royal Presence: "Is there any reason at all why I shouldn't have your head off right now?" To which he replied: "Oh, King, live forever! Know that I, the mullah Nasrudin, am the greatest teacher in your kingdom, and it would surely be a waste to kill such a great teacher. So skilled am I that I could even teach your favorite horse to sing, given a year to work on it." The king was amused, and said: "Very well then, you move into the stable immediately, and if the horse isn't singing a year from now, we'll think of something interesting to do with you."

As he was returning to his cell to pick up his spare rags, his cellmate remonstrated with him: "Now that was really stupid. You know you can't teach that horse to sing, no matter how long you try." Nasrudin's response: "Not at all. I have a year now that I didn't have before. And a lot of things can happen in a year. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die.

"And, who knows? Maybe the horse will sing."
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
Lets say you are the Emperor of the Roman Empire, you just conquered a few provinces, and captured a few slaves, and you say to those slaves, "I want you to invent an automobile otherwise I'll kill you, you got ten days to do it, and I'm putting the entire resources of the Roman Empire at your disposal!"
What do you think, could the slave do it? if he fails then the Emperor will kill him. Does that make him smart enough to invent the automobile in a tech level 1 society if his life depended on it?
I'm not sure what your point is here?

Granted accidents and random chance have produced much but are usually unintentional results. Are you saying it is useless to provide funding and motivation to research and achieve a desired outcome?

Are you saying the creation of some kind of "save mankind" ships is impossible?

I'll 100% agree that some things are unlikely and just throwing money and resources at it won't succeed, especially if done in a haphazard way. Starting today, in ten days create a ship to go to the moon and back. Even with unlimited funding, resources, and already having people capable of doing this, you are not going to build a ship from scratch in 10 days.

Take the "Roman Automobile" scenario and maybe "I saw this neat Aeolipile" or "The Chinese have these rockets" and give an open time frame instead of 10 days and utilize the minds of the educated intellectual instead of the common peasant and the criteria of creating a device that was automated and mobile instead of the modern vision of an internal combustion engine driven vehicle... perhaps the concept of steam power or rocketry or something else... the Romans used hushing and knew the power of water, if they had Al-Jazari's water harnessing concepts... perhaps knowledge could have been advanced upon to produce some kind of automated rudimentary transport with limited capability.

There was a time not that long ago when there was motivation and funding (and not nearly as important as saving mankind) to come up with innovations and find a way to send men into space...
 
You could always turn the scenario upside down:

The phenomenon has been observed approaching the Solar system and the consensus among scientists is that it will do very little damage to the Earth. Emergency bunkers are being built, resources have been channelled into disaster relief efforts for after the event, which is deemed to be enough to protect most of the world's population.
However - a small percentage of scientists, a handful of rich tycoons and a thousand or so sceptical people have come together to build a ship to escape the cataclysm. Whichever regional government is in charge of their area will be opposed to their plan as it will instill mistrust and fear in the inhabitants and create panic.

I suppose it does sound a bit 'Noah's Ark-ish' on reading it through!
 
This:

Hopeless said:
Now we have the usual bad guys determined to be the ones who succeed and dictate who survives.

And this:

Tom Kalbfus said:
Problem is under such a scenario, most of us would die! I am under no illusions that I would make the cut for the 1000 to be included on the ship, and probably you wouldn't either. Who would decide who gets to survive?

You seem to be determined to assign a moral aspect to some people trying to decide who lives and who dies as being "good" and others being "bad." In a situation like this, it is going to be "every man for himself" and is a situation that I think will be largely beyond good and evil.

You mentioned that the only a few people are going to be able to evacuate. Less than one in hundreds of millions of people on the world will be able to leave. To everyone left behind, those making the decision, regardless of how it is chosen regardless of the criteria you choose, the process will be monstrously corrupt and utterly evil to the vast majority of the people on the Earth (you know, those people who aren't chosen) to the point that various 20th century despotic regimes and Adversaries of all the world's religions would look saintly compared to the people deciding on who gets to leave.

I don't think there'd be any public announcement about the end of the world. Governments of the worlds would (wisely) keep quiet about it. No realistic democracy could survive such an announcement. If they wanted any chance of this working out, they'd have to use a tyrannical, despotic system. You'd need to gain the cooperation of key research facilities, industrial, and governmental groups. You'd need to compromise with them and give them something they want (eg; a place on the evacuation list) in exchange for what you need; for obvious reasons, that's not going to look very fair to everyone else. They'd research this stuff reasonably publicly, perhaps talking about space travel or colonization and so on, but the real motive of the project (evacuation) would be kept secret as long as possible - they know the truth will get out eventually, and there'll be mass panic, wars, and so on but they need to get done as much work as they can utilizing the current infrastructure and workers before this happens. The rest they'd complete in some remote location (possibly in a moon-based or orbital facility).

So perhaps an angle on your game would be that the players discover that the announcements of a "new space race" between the US and China is actually a mask to cover efforts to build the infrastructure and "immune spot" (possibly in orbit or on the moon) where once the truth gets out and there's mass panic on the Earth, the coalition of the evacuation project would be safe from most forms of attack.
 
Immortality is through the continuance of humanity in general and our genes specifically, and culture, pretty much the idea behind Plan B in Interstellar.
 
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