Ask MongooseMatt ANYTHING!!!

[Terry Mixon]

Okay, not really anything, but when we post questions about the rules or potential typos in the feedback area, we often don't receive a response, so I'm creating this thread in the hopes of getting some response to questions we have, even if it is "we're looking at that" or some such.

I'll kick this off with a question I posted a few days ago. The emergency low berths in High Guard 2022 Update are listed at MC1 a pop. Seems real pricy since Mongoose 1e and all the previous versions of Traveller we checked had it being KCr100. In Mongoose 1e, it was listed as MCr.1 and we suspect a typo. Can we get some clartity on that so we can update the starship build sheet to reflect what we suspect if we're right? Thanks.

Also, allow me to suggest that adding KCr, BCr (or GCr to please @Geir), and TCr to your repertoire would be really helpful and would minimize the complaints about not having comma separation in your big numbers, too.

And sorry for all the wild AMA questions you're about to get @MongooseMatt.

 

[Vormaerin]

Right. So the question is why the f aren't nearly all ships like that? It makes no sense. People are expensive and annoying. I've never encountered a corporation that wasn't happy to automate away actual people where they could do so without a loss of performance. And virtual crew/robots are vastly cheaper over time than crew in salary and benefits. Unless you are doing very high risk tasks, which is antithetical to corporate behavior in general (That's what outsourcing is for), automation should rule space. Both based on the rules and on common sense.

But Charted Space wants a people focused setting. So there needs to be either game mechanics or in game reasons like laws why it is the way that it is. They sort of mumble about the Vilani, but 90% of the setting material is outside of Vilani dominated space and that was thousands of years ago. Not to mention it ignores all the aliens.

Fuzzy "people prefer" does NOT trump profits, ever. Seriously. People add enormously to the cost of ships. All the space they need (bridges, staterooms, kitchens, etc), the life support, the wages, the whiny demand for safe working conditions and vacations, etc. So if it is the dominant way shipping is done, it needs to either be a law or basically unsafe and unsuccessful not to. It's clearly not the latter in the rules.

Yeah, some ships like liners need crew because rich people always want other people fawning on them. But that's an exception.

Traveller won't commit to WHY they have messy fleshbags cluttering up their ships and, increasingly, they add crewless vessels because they can't/won't distinguish between Charted Space and the core rules. And the core rules need to have robots and automation, because you aren't required to play in Charted Space.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Right. So the question is why the f aren't nearly all ships like that? It makes no sense. People are expensive and annoying. I've never encountered a corporation that wasn't happy to automate away actual people where they could do so without a loss of performance. And virtual crew/robots are vastly cheaper over time than crew in salary and benefits. Unless you are doing very high risk tasks, which is antithetical to corporate behavior in general (That's what outsourcing is for), automation should rule space. Both based on the rules and on common sense.

But Charted Space wants a people focused setting. So there needs to be either game mechanics or in game reasons like laws why it is the way that it is. They sort of mumble about the Vilani, but 90% of the setting material is outside of Vilani dominated space and that was thousands of years ago. Not to mention it ignores all the aliens.

Fuzzy "people prefer" does NOT trump profits, ever. Seriously. People add enormously to the cost of ships. All the space they need (bridges, staterooms, kitchens, etc), the life support, the wages, the whiny demand for safe working conditions and vacations, etc. So if it is the dominant way shipping is done, it needs to either be a law or basically unsafe and unsuccessful not to. It's clearly not the latter in the rules.

Yeah, some ships like liners need crew because rich people always want other people fawning on them. But that's an exception.

Traveller won't commit to WHY they have messy fleshbags cluttering up their ships and, increasingly, they add crewless vessels because they can't/won't distinguish between Charted Space and the core rules. And the core rules need to have robots and automation, because you aren't required to play in Charted Space.

We here at MixCorp are always looking for ways to eliminate messy flesh bags from the equation! That’s why we do what we do! Use our robotic ships to save money and get rid of all the unneeded flatulence.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

My take on it is the bridge is an interface for humans to control the systems in the ship. If things are automated, there is no need for a bridge.

Then why does the rules not say that?

E.g.:

HG'22, p19:
All ships must have a bridge that contains basic controls, communications equipment, avionics, scanners, detectors, sensors and other equipment for proper operation of the ship.

The bridge seems to include all C³ and even basic I equipment and functionality?

Or is HG'22 already obsolete?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Then why does the rules not say that?

E.g.:


The bridge seems to include all C³ and even basic I equipment and functionality?

Or is HG'22 already obsolete?

As I said elsewhere, commo makes the most sense if it is rolled into the sensor suite, which is already accounted for.

 

[Vormaerin]

We here at MixCorp are always looking for ways to eliminate messy flesh bags from the equation! That’s why we do what we do! Use our robotic ships to save money and get rid of all the unneeded flatulence.

Can you explain why your remote control technology is so pathetic it can't handle a 1 second lag? A light second is 300,000km and you are telling me you can't maintain human overwatch at that distance? Honestly, I have no idea why the sensor tech in the core rules is so pathetic compared to previous editions or 2300.

And on the subject of automation, why is that mining company in High N Dry paying those guys running the smuggling ring? That ship doesn't need any crew. It's flying a circuit in normal space. You could practically get away with an autopilot, much less a proper virtual crew and robotic drones.

Or the mining company in Murder on Arcturus Station? If robot ships are a reliable technology, that would totally solve all their problems except maybe the dead guy's sadism.

I'm sorry, but some unspoken agreement between the hundreds of billions of sophonts in Charted Space to actually crew ships with people is laughably stupid. Either robotic ships work and they are widely used or they don't work and they aren't used or they are illegal and they aren't used. There's no "they work, but no one does it."

Because you can't tell me the Zhodani are totally fine with warbots, but would balk at having uncrewed cargo vessels.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Can you explain why your remote control technology is so pathetic it can't handle a 1 second lag? A light second is 300,000km and you are telling me you can't maintain human overwatch at that distance? Honestly, I have no idea why the sensor tech in the core rules is so pathetic compared to previous editions or 2300.

And on the subject of automation, why is that mining company in High N Dry paying those guys running the smuggling ring? That ship doesn't need any crew. It's flying a circuit in normal space. You could practically get away with an autopilot, much less a proper virtual crew and robotic drones.

Or the mining company in Murder on Arcturus Station? If robot ships are a reliable technology, that would totally solve all their problems except maybe the dead guy's sadism.

I'm sorry, but some unspoken agreement between the hundreds of billions of sophonts in Charted Space to actually crew ships with people is laughably stupid. Either robotic ships work and they are widely used or they don't work and they aren't used or they are illegal and they aren't used. There's no "they work, but no one does it."

Because you can't tell me the Zhodani are totally fine with warbots, but would balk at having uncrewed cargo vessels.

I agree with these sentiments, but still feel the need to add: Do you want Zombie Fleets? Because this is how you get Zombie Fleets.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Can you explain why your remote control technology is so pathetic it can't handle a 1 second lag? A light second is 300,000km and you are telling me you can't maintain human overwatch at that distance? Honestly, I have no idea why the sensor tech in the core rules is so pathetic compared to previous editions or 2300.

And on the subject of automation, why is that mining company in High N Dry paying those guys running the smuggling ring? That ship doesn't need any crew. It's flying a circuit in normal space. You could practically get away with an autopilot, much less a proper virtual crew and robotic drones.

Or the mining company in Murder on Arcturus Station? If robot ships are a reliable technology, that would totally solve all their problems except maybe the dead guy's sadism.

I'm sorry, but some unspoken agreement between the hundreds of billions of sophonts in Charted Space to actually crew ships with people is laughably stupid. Either robotic ships work and they are widely used or they don't work and they aren't used or they are illegal and they aren't used. There's no "they work, but no one does it."

Because you can't tell me the Zhodani are totally fine with warbots, but would balk at having uncrewed cargo vessels.

I wonder if it could be a hacking question. You can pirate ships without a fight if you can land on them and hack the airlock before help arrives. You could steal the whole ship that way while jamming comms. At least in the 3I fully automated killbots are illegal by Tradition more than law, so the automated ships likely can not be programmed to kill aggressors. (From legitimate dealers anyhow)

 

[MasterGwydion]

I agree with these sentiments, but still feel the need to add: Do you want Zombie Fleets? Because this is how you get Zombie Fleets.

We had that. It was called The Virus. Everybody hated it! lol

Edit - All of the above is sarcasm.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I wonder if it could be a hacking question. You can pirate ships without a fight if you can land on them and hack the airlock before help arrives. You could steal the whole ship that way while jamming comms. At least in the 3I fully automated killbots are illegal by Tradition more than law, so the automated ships likely can not be programmed to kill aggressors. (From legitimate dealers anyhow)

The robots are as able to defend as well as a sophont crew. If you're concerned, add a few dozen robots and you're as well off as if you had people.

"The kil bots are tethered to the ship, sir. If you hadn't tried to board without the correct overrides, well, we'd be having a much different conversation, wouldn't we?"

And they could be tethered. External power only. No wandering off.

 

[Vormaerin]

I agree with these sentiments, but still feel the need to add: Do you want Zombie Fleets? Because this is how you get Zombie Fleets.

Actually, you get zombie fleets from abusing sentient rocks.

Also, no one will actually care about hypothetical zombie fleets without a law saying no making roboships.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Or is HG'22 already obsolete?

Yes. The core rule book changes bridge size requirement table, and there are many supplemental rules for HG22 scattered through 38 books now.

The book authors can't even use their own rules in the book they introduce them.

 

[Sigtrygg]

To quote AnotherDilbert's quote:

"HG'22, p19: All ships must have a bridge that contains basic controls, communications equipment, avionics, scanners, detectors, sensors and other equipment for proper operation of the ship."

The stuff in bold is not covered by other systems, so remove the bridge you still need to account for comms, avionics, and other equipment for proper operation of the ship.

This is slipping into MegaTraveller/FF&S territory.

 

[MasterGwydion]

To quote AnotherDilbert's quote:

"HG'22, p19: All ships must have a bridge that contains basic controls, communications equipment, avionics, scanners, detectors, sensors and other equipment for proper operation of the ship."

The stuff in bold is not covered by other systems, so remove the bridge you still need to account for comms, avionics, and other equipment for proper operation of the ship.

This is slipping into MegaTraveller/FF&S territory.

Yeah, but none of that takes up space in Traveller. It just takes money. This is demonstrated by the cost of the bridge and the size of the standard bridge not being related. Standard bridge costs 0.5MCr/100 tons of ship, not 100 tons of bridge.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Avionics should take up space, comms should take up space, especially with redundancy a necessity, and then it depens on what "other equipment" is - if it is control relays, mechanical or electronic, feedback internal sensors etc then they should take up space too.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Avionics should take up space, comms should take up space, especially with redundancy a necessity, and then it depens on what "other equipment" is - if it is control relays, mechanical or electronic, feedback internal sensors etc then they should take up space too.

Traveller isn't that granular. If they can include free airlocks, then free wiring isn't that much of a stretch.

 

[Sigtrygg]

We are now having the same discussion on two threads, time to drop out of one of them I think.

But before that - back in CT days and the bridge was 20t and contained airlocks, ship's locker and all the above fluff then you could get away with it.

Now that Mongoose has us tracking 2t per airlock it is time to go into nit picking detail.

 

[WHULorigan]

There's literally nothing in the mechanics that requires a ship to have even a single person on board, other than the johnny come lately Niven-ism about astrogation computers no longer being able to astrogate without someone thinking happy thoughts. Which I think we determined MJD added to the game out of thin air and was propagated on from there.

However, the clear intention is that ships in have people on them and that kind of widespread culture generally results from laws, not fuzzy feelings.

Well, if you're not sending the navicomputer CPU chips good vibes of the proper resonant natural harmonic frequency . . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

Now that Mongoose has us tracking 2t per airlock it is time to go into nit picking detail.

If a rule needed removing from High Guard, that might be the one...

 

[Terry Mixon]

If a rule needed removing from High Guard, that might be the one...

I can't disagree with that.

 

[Condottiere]

Autopilot, being rather obvious.

Self diagnostic programme, covering life support, and engineering, would be helpful.

And, collision alert.