Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Impressions Not Errata

[ottarrus]

I've been looking forward to this book since it was announced last year.
How much?
The way I normally read game books is that I read a couple chapters and then put it down for a bit, a couple hours.. do a household chore or something... and pick it back up. This allows me to absorb the information in pieces instead of just reacting to every tidbit. I've found that this helps me be less reactionary and more thoughtful when judging a book's content. This is something I learned in therapy for PTSD and it does help my temper issues more than I initially thought it would.
THIS book didn't go like that. I wolfed this bad boy down like I was reading a young adult novel.
So my first impressions are these:
- While I would change the organization of the chapters a bit, the sum total of content was pretty good.
- As a ground military veteran there are some things in the book that I agree with and some I don't. But let's face it, you ask three veterans a question and you'll get five opinions and one guy who disagrees with everything just be a jerk. 'Opinionated' doesn't even begin to cover the veteran community.
- My one really serious complaint is the illustrations of Battle Dress on pgs. 62-63. Exactly where is the wearer supposed to put his frikkin' head? The Goddamn things look more like some Japanese mecha toon than Traveller armors that are supposed to fit a human. AGAIN, and I repeat, the art, the text, and the math have to illustrate the same things!
- One thing I REALLY appreciated in MJD's work here is how he takes the time to explain military concepts and techniques for those who have no experience with the material. This bit of instruction was absolutely necessary in order to make the book more than a glorified 'big gun book'.
- I have always thought that the Unified Armies concept pioneered in GT Ground Forces was the most logical organizational theory to field an effective ground military force for an empire covering 11,000 worlds. MJD refines the concepts begun there a great deal, and I think improves the organizational model overall. NICE work.

These are my initial impressions. I'm sure I'll have more and will include them here as I go. What do you guys think?

 

[Grognardia]

Agreed on the bizarre Battle Dress. Why mess with the classic concept we already have?

 

[Terry Mixon]

My suspicion is that the head is down under the top and inside the armor where it belongs. Much more protected that way. Everyone is relayed to the wearer.

It makes sense as Singularity will supposedly have robotic battle dress. These suits could be exactly that, wearer optional.

 

[ottarrus]

My suspicion is that the head is down under the top and inside the armor where it belongs. Much more protected that way. Everyone is relayed to the wearer.

It makes sense as Singularity will supposedly have robotic battle dress. These suits could be exactly that, wearer optional.

But look at where the 'helmet' is in relation to the shoulders... even if the armor is, say, 10-15% larger than the human supposedly wearing it, the wearer would have to have his chin on his chest. The proportions are all wrong. The suits look like something from Macross and I keep thinking they're gonna morph into a motorcycle or some shit....

 

[MasterGwydion]

But look at where the 'helmet' is in relation to the shoulders... even if the armor is, say, 10-15% larger than the human supposedly wearing it, the wearer would have to have his chin on his chest. The proportions are all wrong. The suits look like something from Macross and I keep thinking they're gonna morph into a motorcycle or some shit....

Can you build a Transformer or a Robotech motorcycle in Traveller? Do we have rules for that somewhere?

Andre the Giant took up a volume of approximately 0.236m3, so a battle robot of his size would take up the same amount of space. Because bipeds are oddly shaped though, they require much more space to store them than the 0.236m3 of actual space that they take up. In My airlock calculations, I determined that each person-sized and shaped object requires approximately 2.12 times their volume. So, in this case, 0.236m3 times 2.12 equals about 0.5m3. That means that, if your battlebots could transform into cubes when not activated, you could store twice the number of them in the same amount of space.

Just a random thought that occurred to me.

 

[GabrielGABFonseca]

Agreed on the bizarre Battle Dress. Why mess with the classic concept we already have?

View attachment 5518

I must admit I was a bit perplexed by it too, especially considering the Battle Dress is so iconic (Mongoose's version is the best one yet), and there's even a whole line of Minis showcasing the things made by the 2nd Dynasty guys. And, like... it's on the cover of 'The Fifth Frontier War'...

My interpretation to this is that the 'classic' Battle Dress design is the Marines Battle Dress and the ones in this book are, as indicated in the illustrations' subtitles, the Infantry/Army Battle Dress. I can live with that, though it does make me go 'bit odd, innit?'

[EDIT 1:] ... and my rationalisation is immediately proven incompatible with the actual text in the book. I don't dislike the new designs (though I too am unsure how they're supposed to fit a human into them), but man, what an odd choice to ditch the classic one.

[EDIT 2:] My memory did not fail me, I had remembered Matt mentioned the reason for the delay was something to do with Battle Dress; relevant posts: https://forum.mongoosepublishing.co...tier-war-coming-next-week.125804/post-1011464 & https://forum.mongoosepublishing.co...tier-war-coming-next-week.125804/post-1011532

 

[Condottiere]

Lobster tail helmets aren't a new concept.

 

[ottarrus]

Changing the subject and something that would have been an excellent addition to Armies 5FW...
Some transport ships and landing craft for the current rules set.
I mean, can you **imagine** the size of the starport necessary to load a corps onto landing craft and get them up to the transport?
- First you have to get a brigade [+/- 5000 troops] ready for loading and to the spaceport. If you've ever seen a mechanized battalion get ready for loading you can mentally see the clown school involved.
- Also add that past editions [including CT] have stated that the Imperium is moving away from transporting Army and Marine troops in cold sleep.
- So in order to adequately berth a division, you're gonna need gyms, workshops, training rooms, etc. or else the unit will lose it's skill set while in transport.

 

[ottarrus]

Another thing I loved in the book was the addition of the 'Flying Mall'.
I've been places where I was almost willing to kill somebody I know for a cold soda [and it didn't matter what kind of soda] so the idea of a battalion of grav-trucks dedicated to going out into the boonies and selling troops the little extras that make life worth living while they're deployed is something close to genius

 

[Terry Mixon]

Changing the subject and something that would have been an excellent addition to Armies 5FW...
Some transport ships and landing craft for the current rules set.
I mean, can you **imagine** the size of the starport necessary to load a corps onto landing craft and get them up to the transport?
- First you have to get a brigade [+/- 5000 troops] ready for loading and to the spaceport. If you've ever seen a mechanized battalion get ready for loading you can mentally see the clown school involved.
- Also add that past editions [including CT] have stated that the Imperium is moving away from transporting Army and Marine troops in cold sleep.
- So in order to adequately berth a division, you're gonna need gyms, workshops, training rooms, etc. or else the unit will lose it's skill set while in transport.

Allow MixCorp to assist you with that! The 50,000-ton Type V Marine Transport Pod is meant to be hauled by a Warmonger Battle Tender in logistics mode and can handle 20,000 marines.

You’re welcome, enemies of the Imperium.

 

[Condottiere]

Transportation, landing, and assault spacecraft tend to be separate items.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Transportation, landing, and assault spacecraft tend to be separate items.

My Marine Transport Pod isn’t intended for hostile landings, but is self-mobile and can handle all but assaults.

 

[Condottiere]

It's one reason I reorganized Fleet Squadrons around battle tenders, and their juicy cargoed contents.

If planetary assault is the operational goal, ground forces transportation become the primary target.

 

[GabrielGABFonseca]

Circling back to the topic of the Battle Dress, as drawn by a friend:



A human wouldn't fit inside the Battle Dress as drawn. If I may suggest, what if the robo-heads were swapped for a helmet more reminiscent of the Classic/Lobster/Teardrop design? That way the newfound chonk of the Battle Dress is maintained without sacrificing the one iconic identifier, that being the helmet design.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Circling back to the topic of the Battle Dress, as drawn by a friend:

View attachment 5524

A human wouldn't fit inside the Battle Dress as drawn. If I may suggest, what if the robo-heads were swapped for a helmet more reminiscent of the Classic/Lobster/Teardrop design? That way the newfound chonk of the Battle Dress is maintained without sacrificing the one iconic identifier, that being the helmet design.

I disagree. If the head is in the upper chest area, the shoulders could be lower under thew armored pauldrons. It works.

 

[Anstett]

Agree with @Terry Mixon

If you move the head up like that then they need a very long neck down to the shoulders. A general rule of thumb is someone's neck is roughly slightly longer than the size of their fist across.

With the modified drawing there, that leaves no room for shoulder joints, armor, etc. because it brings the jawline down too low to the shoulders.

 

[ottarrus]

Your mileage will vary, I guess.

 

[boggo2300]

Circling back to the topic of the Battle Dress, as drawn by a friend:

View attachment 5524

A human wouldn't fit inside the Battle Dress as drawn. If I may suggest, what if the robo-heads were swapped for a helmet more reminiscent of the Classic/Lobster/Teardrop design? That way the newfound chonk of the Battle Dress is maintained without sacrificing the one iconic identifier, that being the helmet design.

gotta say that entire design is disappointing and just looks wrong in a lot of ways

 

[ottarrus]

Circling back to the topic of the Battle Dress, as drawn by a friend:

View attachment 5524

A human wouldn't fit inside the Battle Dress as drawn. If I may suggest, what if the robo-heads were swapped for a helmet more reminiscent of the Classic/Lobster/Teardrop design? That way the newfound chonk of the Battle Dress is maintained without sacrificing the one iconic identifier, that being the helmet design.

That would help a lot. Also removing the exposed hydraulic lines in the waist area would be good. This TL 15 gear, not some Fallout suit with the air hoses exposed like a dive suit...

 

[boggo2300]

That would help a lot. Also removing the exposed hydraulic lines in the waist area would be good. This TL 15 gear, not some Fallout suit with the air hoses exposed like a dive suit...

that and it's so clunky build makes me think it's really really low-tech, like TL-10 or 11 definitely not the refined TL-15 Battledress