Anyone seen the new Sector Fleet book?
- Thread starter phavoc
- Start date
DFW said:
Grand Fleet seems to more of a library data / fluff type 3I book at this point, not a fleet vs. fleet wargame. If that's not to your taste you may want to take a pass until/if the various ship classes are all covered in MGT terms or Mongoose produces a fleet vs. fleet game.
I find the fluff useful and interesting in itself, others will have to decide for themselves. I'm not interested in fleet battles myself and appreciate the setting information the book provides for a role-playing game.
If my game did require fleet vs. fleet rules before Mongoose provided them; the book would still be a useful reference for creating whatever rules I deemed necessary as a GM.
I just picked up the "Sector Fleet' book yesterday, and concur with other posts here. It has some interesting information on the Imperial Navy in the 3rd Imperium setting, and some generic information on what the different ship classes and type represent, but it doesn't really provide specifics on any particular ships.
As such, its probably mostly aimed at people interested in naval background info and/or "completists " interested in how things work in the 3rd Imperium or refs (and such) who want to be able to answer naval related questons that arise during a game. Though I suspect that many gamers could probably easily get by with out it.
That said, it looks decently done to me, but has only limited artwork in it.
A question or two crossed my mind whil looking over the book, though. Specifically, a number of ship types are mentioned "Battlecruisers", "Strike Carriers", "Battlte Tenders', Tankers/Resupply Ships", "Dromedaries", etc. And general statements about their uses ans capabilities are noted, such as "Battle Cruisers' cannot stand up to their own armament for long or "Strike Carriers" can penetrate hostile system and luanch a strike attacking commerce and facilities and then withdraw before "effective resistance" can materialize.
The things that stick in my mind about such statements is, are they based on real experience by running simulated battles with the current Mongoose rules, are the based on previsous experience with other similar Traveller rules sets, or are they generalizations based on what is assumed likely to happen, etc?
The reason this is a question to me, is that in a previous Traveller rules and setting "GURPS Traveller: Interstellas Wars" (which is in general a very good book) if I am recalling correctly it made mention of how effective missiles were in combat and how they gave the 1st Imperium an initial advantage over the Terran forces. However, as I read more about the rules on various boards on the internet there appeared to be a concensus amoung many posters that in actual gameplay this may not really be the case. As such it appeared that there was a disconnect between what the authors intended and what the rules actually resulted in.
As such, when I see some of the broad statements in the "Sector Fleet" book, realizing that the Mongoose rules are still fairly new, and as such I'd suspect that alot of large scale fleet battles, and/or overarching naval campaigns probably haven't been simmed with these rules, it kind of makes me want to know what the basis of some of the statements in the "Sector Fleet' book are based on.
Anyay, just some thoughts and comments.
Regards
PF
As such, its probably mostly aimed at people interested in naval background info and/or "completists " interested in how things work in the 3rd Imperium or refs (and such) who want to be able to answer naval related questons that arise during a game. Though I suspect that many gamers could probably easily get by with out it.
That said, it looks decently done to me, but has only limited artwork in it.
A question or two crossed my mind whil looking over the book, though. Specifically, a number of ship types are mentioned "Battlecruisers", "Strike Carriers", "Battlte Tenders', Tankers/Resupply Ships", "Dromedaries", etc. And general statements about their uses ans capabilities are noted, such as "Battle Cruisers' cannot stand up to their own armament for long or "Strike Carriers" can penetrate hostile system and luanch a strike attacking commerce and facilities and then withdraw before "effective resistance" can materialize.
The things that stick in my mind about such statements is, are they based on real experience by running simulated battles with the current Mongoose rules, are the based on previsous experience with other similar Traveller rules sets, or are they generalizations based on what is assumed likely to happen, etc?
The reason this is a question to me, is that in a previous Traveller rules and setting "GURPS Traveller: Interstellas Wars" (which is in general a very good book) if I am recalling correctly it made mention of how effective missiles were in combat and how they gave the 1st Imperium an initial advantage over the Terran forces. However, as I read more about the rules on various boards on the internet there appeared to be a concensus amoung many posters that in actual gameplay this may not really be the case. As such it appeared that there was a disconnect between what the authors intended and what the rules actually resulted in.
As such, when I see some of the broad statements in the "Sector Fleet" book, realizing that the Mongoose rules are still fairly new, and as such I'd suspect that alot of large scale fleet battles, and/or overarching naval campaigns probably haven't been simmed with these rules, it kind of makes me want to know what the basis of some of the statements in the "Sector Fleet' book are based on.
Anyay, just some thoughts and comments.
Regards
PF
nats
Banded Mongoose
PFVA63 said:
I would guess that such comments are just generalistic claims that anyone with just a passing knoweldge of present day naval systems could make. As there are no definitive specs for each type of ship in the book then its all just made up 'fiction'. Might as well read a good Science Fiction novel for all the help it sounds like it would be during a real game.
One of these days I will play a large fleet battle using the MGT High Guard rules (been meaning to do it for a while) and I am pretty sure that this book would not be of any use in the setting up of that game whatsoever :roll: In fact I would guess that a lot of the Classic Traveller stuff like Trillion Credit Squadron, Fighting Ships and Traders and Gunboats would be far more useful and much cheaper to buy.
You know one of these days MGT will actually ask us what we actually need for our Traveller gaming rather than releasing spurious literature!! For me I would prefer to see a decent World Building book, a Safari like adventure or a Chamax Plague type adventure over this sort of rope anyday. Maybe we should start a vote/poll on what Traveller stuff we would like to see and try to get an organised user request post going!!
It sounds like they are re-hashing naval battle doctrine that has been around for a 100yrs. When battlecruisers were first created, they (erroneously) thought that they were a cheaper way to add capital ship firepower to ships of the line... till the Germans proved to the British battlecruisers have no place in the line of battle... Then they were properly relegated to their more traditional concept, that of a ship that could outrun anything it could not outfight. Then came planes, and the poor battlecruiser never recovered from that.
I will probably take a look at the book if I can get my hands on a copy at the hobby store. But thus far it's not sounding like its going to be worth it too much. I for one would have been far more interested in little nuggets like "how does a fleet invade a system". Since jump travel is highly erratic about when you'll emerge from jump space, how does a fleet jump to an enemy star system? how do they perform their maneuvers once they get there (it would suck to be sitting there and have another ship emerge next to or inside of you - rules aren't clear if that is possible or not). Assuming you have an entire fleet, what do you do when your support vessels emerge a day earlier than their escorts? You know, all those things that really combine to make an invasion of an enemy star system really hairy.
The rest of the book seems like more re-hash of the information that has come before it. It would be nice if MgT would contribute more and expand the cannon than just repeat the same stuff that's been published for the last 20 years.
I will probably take a look at the book if I can get my hands on a copy at the hobby store. But thus far it's not sounding like its going to be worth it too much. I for one would have been far more interested in little nuggets like "how does a fleet invade a system". Since jump travel is highly erratic about when you'll emerge from jump space, how does a fleet jump to an enemy star system? how do they perform their maneuvers once they get there (it would suck to be sitting there and have another ship emerge next to or inside of you - rules aren't clear if that is possible or not). Assuming you have an entire fleet, what do you do when your support vessels emerge a day earlier than their escorts? You know, all those things that really combine to make an invasion of an enemy star system really hairy.
The rest of the book seems like more re-hash of the information that has come before it. It would be nice if MgT would contribute more and expand the cannon than just repeat the same stuff that's been published for the last 20 years.
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
nats said:
There is the What Should Mongoose Publish Next section of the forum:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
nats said:
All those titles you mention are in the works
Sector Fleet came to us already prepared and written - we knew it would be of interest to some, if not most, so we went ahead with it!I am definitely interested in the Fleet book. I have ran a high noble game in the past where fleets were used. I am interested in doing similar again.
Like many here, I have pretty much everything published for Traveller, including magazines. Especially the Classic and Mega versions. Even so I like a uniform look to my books, and over all Mongoose has done a good job of consolidating, cleaning up, and adding to the material, so I buy the new books.
Don't get me wrong, Mongoose can definitely do even better, but as is, they have still improved things enough to make the buys worth while to me. I would love for them to get even better.
Like many here, I have pretty much everything published for Traveller, including magazines. Especially the Classic and Mega versions. Even so I like a uniform look to my books, and over all Mongoose has done a good job of consolidating, cleaning up, and adding to the material, so I buy the new books.
Don't get me wrong, Mongoose can definitely do even better, but as is, they have still improved things enough to make the buys worth while to me. I would love for them to get even better.
phavoc said:
Hi,
I had a chance to look over the book now in a little more detail and I don't recall seeing stuff like quoted above, but there is stuff like;
- background on wars throughout the history of the Imperium(s)
- general info on notional vessel types (but no specifics)
- structure and organization of the Grand Fleet (both Military & Political)
- general fleet structure info (including sector fleets, subsector fleets, colonial fleets, squadorns, depots, bases, and reserves, etc)
- some info on personnel and rank structure
- naval procedures and regulations
- general starship operations (including stuff like whether the ships are "dry" or allow stuff like alcohol, etc) as well as a little background (5 paragraphs) on command procedures etc.
- flight procudures and jump procedures etc
- a general over view of weapons and equipment
- a fair bit of overview on the general composition of the "Spinward Marches' sector fleet
- and then a brief overview of "opponents, allies, and rivals"
Regards
PF
Thanks for the quickie review PF. I swung by my local hobby shop and they did not have it. Maybe in the shipment coming in later this week they said.
It sounds like things that have been stated before, so I'm thinking its going to be another retread source book. Sigh.... I really do hope I'm wrong.
It sounds like things that have been stated before, so I'm thinking its going to be another retread source book. Sigh.... I really do hope I'm wrong.
alex_greene
Guest
That works for me. Pretty much any decent Traveller game, the characters are going to run into a small Naval group at some point or another. Whether they're just coming into the system to be hailed by some escort ship on convoy duty and told to back off (because of the vital strategic importance of the cargo: one million pair of fresh Naval regulation underwear to be delivered to the Fleet) or they're about to run afoul of a routine patrol looking for smugglers, it makes sense to have a sourcebook that would outline the composition of such groups, large and small.
And imagine the looks on the player characters' faces when a full Fleet, deployed in an emergency, Jumps into their system.
And imagine the looks on the player characters' faces when a full Fleet, deployed in an emergency, Jumps into their system.
I was digging through some of my Traveller stuff and did some Interwebz digging too. Isn't the new sector fleet book a rehash of the Grand Fleet book published in 2006? Here's what I pulled off the Traveller Wikia:
Grand Fleet is a sourcebook for all versions of Traveller. Concentrating on the Imperial Navy of the Third Imperium, it presents data on naval operations, procedures and ships for many interstellar powers including the Solomani Confederation, the Julian Protectorate and the Two Thousand Worlds.
Grand Fleet details the role and organization of an interstellar navy as well as the specifics of shipboard protocol such as command devolution, legal and illegal orders, and how much latitude a starship captain has once underway.
Grand Fleet also presents details of the exact composition of an Imperial Sector and Subsector fleet; ship strengths and types, and the vital role played by reserve and Colonial forces in backing up the main strength of the Grand Fleet.
Grand Fleet is compatible with ALL versions of Traveller. It contains answers to some of the Big Questions concerning the Imperial Navy:
What missions does the Navy actually carry out?
Can a Sector Duke legally give orders to a naval Admiral?
How does the Navy recruit and train its personnel?
How many patrol ships are available in a typical subsector?
When the Bridge is shot away, who takes command?
What is the composition of a Sector Fleet?
When is an order illegal? Should it be obeyed anyway?
What jurisdiction does a corporate Route Protector have?
How much does an Able Spacehand get paid?
When a Commodore commands a single-ship force, is the Captain still in command?
Table of Contents Edit
Introduction
Chapter 1: Grand Fleet of the Third Imperium
Chapter 2: Vessels of the Imperial Navy
Chapter 3: Structure and Organization of the Grand Fleet
Chapter 4: Personnel
Chapter 5: Deployments and Procedures
Chapter 6: Weapons and Equipment
Appendix 1: Opponents and Rivals
Appendix 2: Sector Fleet table of organizations and equipment
Retrieved from "http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Fleet"
Grand Fleet is a sourcebook for all versions of Traveller. Concentrating on the Imperial Navy of the Third Imperium, it presents data on naval operations, procedures and ships for many interstellar powers including the Solomani Confederation, the Julian Protectorate and the Two Thousand Worlds.
Grand Fleet details the role and organization of an interstellar navy as well as the specifics of shipboard protocol such as command devolution, legal and illegal orders, and how much latitude a starship captain has once underway.
Grand Fleet also presents details of the exact composition of an Imperial Sector and Subsector fleet; ship strengths and types, and the vital role played by reserve and Colonial forces in backing up the main strength of the Grand Fleet.
Grand Fleet is compatible with ALL versions of Traveller. It contains answers to some of the Big Questions concerning the Imperial Navy:
What missions does the Navy actually carry out?
Can a Sector Duke legally give orders to a naval Admiral?
How does the Navy recruit and train its personnel?
How many patrol ships are available in a typical subsector?
When the Bridge is shot away, who takes command?
What is the composition of a Sector Fleet?
When is an order illegal? Should it be obeyed anyway?
What jurisdiction does a corporate Route Protector have?
How much does an Able Spacehand get paid?
When a Commodore commands a single-ship force, is the Captain still in command?
Table of Contents Edit
Introduction
Chapter 1: Grand Fleet of the Third Imperium
Chapter 2: Vessels of the Imperial Navy
Chapter 3: Structure and Organization of the Grand Fleet
Chapter 4: Personnel
Chapter 5: Deployments and Procedures
Chapter 6: Weapons and Equipment
Appendix 1: Opponents and Rivals
Appendix 2: Sector Fleet table of organizations and equipment
Retrieved from "http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Fleet"
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