Ancients/ Vorlons/ Shadow sensors

[ATN082268]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there has been a ruling on what races are affected by the Ancients/ Vorlons/ Shadows ability to partially or fully negate the Stealth trait? Thanks.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[Jim?]

Shadows and Vorlons always get +1 on their die roll to break stealth.

Ancients ignore stealth completely.

This applies any time that a Shadow/Vorlon/Ancient is required to make a stealth check.

 

[H]

um, do you mean who does it work on? it works on everyone, so an ancient can quite happily see through a sharlins stealth as easily as through a shadow cloaks.
I still never understood why the Drakh lost their +1 against stealth, they lack fighters so are effectively weaker against stealth than other races?

 

[Triggy]

um, do you mean who does it work on? it works on everyone, so an ancient can quite happily see through a sharlins stealth as easily as through a shadow cloaks.
I still never understood why the Drakh lost their +1 against stealth, they lack fighters so are effectively weaker against stealth than other races?

It was a balance thing - quite frankly with the Drakh style (mainly shorter-ranged weapons) they kept annihilating Minbari fleets with the +1. Now they've lost it I've not actually seen any problems.

 

[ATN082268]

um, do you mean who does it work on? it works on everyone, so an ancient can quite happily see through a sharlins stealth as easily as through a shadow cloaks.
I still never understood why the Drakh lost their +1 against stealth, they lack fighters so are effectively weaker against stealth than other races?

Hi,

Yes, I was wanting to know if it was effective against everyone. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[l33tpenguin]

I think its funny that, despite being older than the 'Ancients' the shadows still get the same bonus against stealth that the Vorlons do. Come to think of it, the Shadows are THE oldest race you can field..

 

[Triggy]

I think its funny that, despite being older than the 'Ancients' the shadows still get the same bonus against stealth that the Vorlons do. Come to think of it, the Shadows are THE oldest race you can field..

Age is no indication of ability in B5. Just look at the comparisons between the stagnating Minbari and the up and coming EA in the year 2260.

 

[H]

um, do you mean who does it work on? it works on everyone, so an ancient can quite happily see through a sharlins stealth as easily as through a shadow cloaks.
I still never understood why the Drakh lost their +1 against stealth, they lack fighters so are effectively weaker against stealth than other races?

It was a balance thing - quite frankly with the Drakh style (mainly shorter-ranged weapons) they kept annihilating Minbari fleets with the +1. Now they've lost it I've not actually seen any problems.

um, ok, can we get rid of shadowscouts as they murder whitestars 9 times out of ten? not the best argument from you :evil:

 

[ATN082268]

I think its funny that, despite being older than the 'Ancients' the shadows still get the same bonus against stealth that the Vorlons do. Come to think of it, the Shadows are THE oldest race you can field..

I think the Triad and Lorien are older than the Shadows. I do see your point though. A lot of it is going to be speculation as you're going to have to estimate the abilities of the various Ancients at the time of stagnation in addition to the degree and different stagnation after that time.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[Greg Smith]

I think its funny that, despite being older than the 'Ancients' the shadows still get the same bonus against stealth that the Vorlons do. Come to think of it, the Shadows are THE oldest race you can field..

But don't they spend 998 years out of very 1000 asleep?

 

[Triggy]

um, do you mean who does it work on? it works on everyone, so an ancient can quite happily see through a sharlins stealth as easily as through a shadow cloaks.
I still never understood why the Drakh lost their +1 against stealth, they lack fighters so are effectively weaker against stealth than other races?

It was a balance thing - quite frankly with the Drakh style (mainly shorter-ranged weapons) they kept annihilating Minbari fleets with the +1. Now they've lost it I've not actually seen any problems.

um, ok, can we get rid of shadowscouts as they murder whitestars 9 times out of ten? not the best argument from you :evil:

Erm, no - this was a simple case of a rule affecting almost entirely only a single race (Minbari) and therefore testing against Minbari was the way to work things out.

Your suggestion about Shadow Scouts is out of place as there is no simply thing to change about Shadow Scouts to make them balance up against White Stars that doesn't significantly affect them against other races. In the case of the Drakh there was.

Does that make my argument clear now?

 

[l33tpenguin]

If we balanced every ship against every other ship, we would have a single fleet list that would be used regardless of race, because all the ships would be exactly the same and thus 'balanced'

Last I checked, White Stars were effective at killing lots of other stuff. Should we change the White Stars so they are not so effective?

 

[ATN082268]

If we balanced every ship against every other ship, we would have a single fleet list that would be used regardless of race, because all the ships would be exactly the same and thus 'balanced'

Last I checked, White Stars were effective at killing lots of other stuff. Should we change the White Stars so they are not so effective?

Units should be balanced so they are roughly equal a solid majority of the time. I think most people would agree there are units (and perhaps some races) which are too weak and too strong, most of which could simply be rectified by upgrading or downgrading their abilities accordingly. It would be rare where a unit had to change their point level to be balanced.

My main complaint is that numerically superiority will win virtually every time. In a 5 point War scenario, try taking 1 Armageddon ship and 3 War level ships and then allow your opponent to take any number of ships worth 5 War points. Try that 5 times with different races. With roughly equal player ability, I can almost guarantee the 1 Armageddon ship and 3 War level ships will be outclassed by the other player at least 4 out of 5 times, assuming the other player took skads of small ships.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[dag'karlove]

Ill tell you what. Ill take the Ka'Bin'Tak and 3 Gvrahns or Bin'Taks and challenge anyone out there to a battle and Ill win Id say 70-80% of the time against any mixt at that points level. Anyone who wants to test that theory feel free to come and Visit Denver.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Ill tell you what. Ill take the Ka'Bin'Tak and 3 Gvrahns or Bin'Taks and challenge anyone out there to a battle and Ill win Id say 70-80% of the time against any mixt at that points level. Anyone who wants to test that theory feel free to come and Visit Denver.

I don't see that going well against ISA or Drakh.

I agree whole heartedly about wanting to see more ships closer to the priority level on the table. There should be some sort of penelty in the system the further away from the PL you go.

And, I wish I could come visit denver I miss colorado

 

[dag'karlove]

Youve obviously never seen me play narn, its inspiring. They are Ideal for ISA and stand up well to the Drakh.